In today’s episode we discuss what couples want more hot or heart-centered sex. Prompted by conversations about their upcoming book, George and Laurie define and explore these two types of sexual connection, how they are different and how they are alike. Withdrawers may find the concept of hot sex too pressure filled and back away from the idea while pursuers might gravitate to that concept.
However, we discuss that hot sex can often be a benefit of connected sex. There is more attunement and less pressure or judgement to perform. The formula might just be connecting the heart with the hot. We want to know what you think! Make sure to leave a review and share this episode with your love.
Transcript
Laurie Watson, PhD (01:00.946)
So if you’re a woman, maybe a sexual withdraw, drawer, do you want hot sex? Does that, is that something that would motivate you to think about, you know, I have a, do I want hot sex?
George (01:16.642)
Great question.
Laurie Watson, PhD (01:25.774)
So George, I know you’ve been in discussion with lots of friends and couples and been hearing things from people about kind of, we’re writing this book on hot sex and some of what you’ve heard is, hot sex doesn’t seem so motivating.
George (01:47.702)
Yeah, it’s always good to get feedback, right? We’re both too sexual pursuers, so hot sex sounds like a pretty great target to me. you know, recognize half the world might see things differently. So just opening up a space, we’re letting you into how Lori and I have these conversations as we’re trying to, you know, be on the same page and kind of get some clear ideas out there. So yes, if I go out to dinner, I often, lot of my friends that would go out as couples will say, how’s the
and I’m like, oh, funny, you should ask, Laurie. So this is, know, and I’ll just bring up a topic like this. And I’ve been surprised by how many of the women have said just the idea of hot sex makes it feel pressured. there’s this unattainable goal that it’s like, it almost feels too big and it like makes them not even want to try, right? To them, it’s more about.
connected sex, like sex that is with their partner and just, they want to emphasize the emotional piece in it, not worrying about the pressure of hot sex. So, I’m sure some people hot sex is a perfect goal and for others that was a little bit too much. So what do you think of that?
Laurie Watson, PhD (03:03.022)
Yeah, I’ve been talking to people too and talking to female withdrawers, sexual withdrawers, probably emotional pursuers. And I mean, one of them sort of said, well, isn’t secure love and hot sex what everybody wants? I think that I remember one sexual pursuer who said,
you know, why not have fantastic sex every single time? Like, why not make it as great as you can make it every single time? And even me, as a sexual pursuer listening to that, I knew that was pressure. You know, it was like, you know, just the huge energy sort of that it seemed like he was requiring, that every single time had to be a big bang.
George (03:46.604)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (04:00.254)
every pun intended, right? You know, multiple bangs. You know, it was, I could feel his energy behind it. I think that honestly,
George (04:01.687)
Multiple bangs.
Laurie Watson, PhD (04:15.502)
what hot sex is to me maybe would be lost on him, you know, because I think that hot sex is, you know, this place of…
like real attunement and responsiveness and it includes love and pleasure. I mean, it has to. So I guess I kind of think maybe we’re talking a definition problem here about.
maybe the pressure of what this guy was saying is what your women that you talk to, the sexual withdrawals are hearing, like, oh, OK, I have to dress up every time. I have to bring something new to the table every time versus I think.
potentially what I see in both the research and in my own self is hot sex is also about deep attunement and certainly pleasure and certainly variety, but it’s not only that. It’s, you know, it’s…
I guess.
George (05:24.172)
win.
Laurie Watson, PhD (05:38.112)
You know, it’s about openness and responsiveness and feeling like desirable and feeling, you know, and desiring my partner. mean, it’s a quality, not necessarily this circus.
George (05:57.561)
Right. Well, I think definitions are important, right? A good therapist, we’re translators, we’re always changing words so they can fit people’s experience. I’ll never forget one of the first times I went to a military base and I was talking about pursuers or withdrawers, pursuers and withdrawers. know, one soldier raises his hand, he goes, you know, we don’t withdraw, right? It’s just not an option in the military. So like the word just didn’t fit, like.
they got the concept, the word didn’t fit so well. So I think it’s important to give people the freedom to choose the words. I agree when me and you talk about hot sex, we’re talking about securely connected sex, right? It’s you can communicate, you can surrender, you can be vulnerable. Those are all parts of hot sex in our minds. But I think a lot of people, when they hear the word hot sex, they think of what Hollywood show and they think about, you know, more of this visual kind of pressure.
thing that’s very different than a Tuesday night, hey, let’s just get together and enjoy each other, right? The goal is more connecting than it is about the hot part of sex. We’re saying they’re the same thing, right? The research is saying it’s the same thing. But for those of you who listen, if you’re a little aversive to the word hot, what is that about?
Laurie Watson, PhD (07:16.128)
Right, I mean I have heard lots of women talk about, I think my partner wants me to be like a porn star. You know, that I’m willing to do anything and everything and I’m acting. You know, there’s like this versus maybe feeling and being in the moment. It’s like I have to put on a big show and you know, they’re definitely resisting that. And certainly I think performance
George (07:23.712)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (07:45.984)
performance, whether it’s, you know, men performing and feeling all that anxiety about that or women feeling pressure to look a certain way, act a certain way to have hot sex, that kind of kills it. Yeah, so I mean, I don’t think we’re saying you need to act like a porn star to have hot sex.
George (08:13.634)
we change the words like passionate. Does that bridge, you know, this passion and feel less threatening than hot. But I do think there’s an element of pornography attached to hot, like the, just the, the, the label out there, you know, you look at the magazines and we just get these unconscious messages like hot is these big lips that are doing these things. And it seems like, you know, there’s a lot of effort that goes into being hot, right? That if I was a sexual withdraw, I’m like, I don’t know if I want to do a lot of effort.
Laurie Watson, PhD (08:42.89)
Yeah. And I think there’s a lot of pressure, I think, really on both sexes these days, men and women, about how you should look. But certainly on women, to look hot, to have hot sex. And I think it’s such a killer for women that they oftentimes don’t enter the sexual moment because they don’t feel like they look hot.
George (09:08.802)
Yeah. That’s a good point. think hot with how you look had nothing to do with sex. know, hot means you’re showing parts, you’re, you know, dressing a certain way. Like it’s, it just limits to what people think about. It’s such a narrow part of what sex is. It can be awesome to have this hot dressed up night. But I always think about Tuesday sex, right? Maintenance sex, trying to reconnect sex. do we, can that, we’re saying that should be hot too.
Laurie Watson, PhD (09:34.134)
Yeah, Tuesday sex. love Tuesday sex.
George (09:41.718)
Wednesday is more my day, but hey.
Laurie Watson, PhD (09:43.726)
Wednesday’s more your day. Right, right the middle of hump day. That’s funny. Yeah, good. Yeah, no, it’s I mean, I think you’re you’re right. You’re talking about, know, sometimes sex can just be about connecting pleasure, being together and
George (09:50.196)
That’s it, you gotta get over a hump. Get you ready for a weekend.
Laurie Watson, PhD (10:12.578)
And I kind of count sex as hot, matter how it is. Naked bodies together feels hot to me.
George (10:24.152)
I like our big definition of hot sex, right, which encompasses all the attachment researches saying works, know, surrender, vulnerability, communication, all these things are part of what we’re calling hot sex.
How do we get people, our listeners, to adopt that bigger definition that we’re seeing and not limited to what a lot of the culture would call hot sex? Because I think this is where the disconnect is happening. A lot of the people that I’m talking to are saying, this is the message I get from the world. Hot sex is this very limited type of sex that can be fun sometimes, but I really don’t want to sign up for that all the time.
Laurie Watson, PhD (11:04.258)
Performance sex. It’s performance sex is what they’re hearing. I gotta be acting. I gotta be acting really enthusiastic the whole time versus letting my body get into it and then perhaps becoming more enthusiastic.
George (11:22.06)
I have to look a certain way, have to act a certain way. There’s a lot of pressure and that’s what a lot of people are balking about, right? The pressure to that word. And we’re trying to kind of expand that.
Laurie Watson, PhD (11:34.434)
We would love you as listeners to write us some notes about this too. we just, I think, you we’re at the end game here of finishing our book and we’d like to know from you kind of how that lands in you. Is hot sex something that you go, yeah, baby, that’s what I want. Or is it this other aspect, it’s performance important sex that feels like pressure?
George (12:09.368)
What is the ultimate goal? You know, a lot of the women at the table that I’m talking to are using the word connected sex, which is kind of ridiculous because what is sex? I’m not connecting, but you know, there’s something about no, like a very easy attainable goal. Like I just really want to be with my partner and experience that. And there’s no pressure to keep calling it connected. But then do we lose something? mean, well, let’s come back and talk about.
Again, when I get excited when you do talk about hot sex.
Laurie Watson, PhD (12:47.746)
So George, you’re saying that the feedback you got from women was that they wanted connected sex. And I think that…
This is so important. mean, the research really does show the attachment research shows that it’s giving our hearts and having exquisite pleasure. That is the definition of secure sex, which to me is hot sex. It’s it’s being deeply involved with that person and using our bodies in ways that brings, you know, the best sensation and feelings. And it’s I think maybe the resistance
George (13:47.255)
Yeah, again, I think it’s the definition. Most people hear the word hot and they associate it with what you’re saying, the pleasure part of it. They don’t really see in that the connected part. You’re saying that is the two critical elements, right? The intimacy, the emotion, and the physical, pleasure. And both of those are aligned in what Laurie’s calling hot sex and what attachment, what we’re writing this book about. And I love that Laurie wants to push people to get clearer around what the goal is.
Right? The size is really clear and what great lovers do, they do both of these things. That’s what we’re calling hot sex. Right? That… Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (14:23.95)
Right. And I will say both genders in the research prefer sex that is entangled with their heart. You know, that it’s the body and the heart that is just mashed up together in those, in that moment. And it’s not just women that want that. The research is clear that men mostly want that as well, too. I mean, I think…
George (14:46.178)
what is the heart left out of hot sex. That’s what we’re trying to get feedback from our listeners. It is part of what hot sex is. It is non-debatable. That is exactly. And I love that you keep fighting for that. Don’t just settle for connected sex that just focus in. You got to also accentuate the pleasure part of it for you. I we keep encouraging that part, right? Both are important. And does that word hot capture that for you?
Laurie Watson, PhD (15:15.564)
Yeah, and interesting, both heart and heart, right? They start with an H, they end with a T, there’s something about that that is speaking to me. But I think what I worry about with sexual withdrawers is that they don’t look inside enough, they don’t talk to their partner enough about…
George (15:24.802)
Yeah.
George (15:38.04)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (15:39.918)
what really is gratifying in the sexual moment for themselves. And so they don’t make it hot enough. There isn’t enough pleasure. It’s like they’re going along just doing it. And, and so
George (15:44.98)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Laurie Watson, PhD (15:55.818)
It isn’t as much as that they could have out of that experience. It’s not as big of an experience that kind of might reward them physiologically that makes them want to do it again. And I mean, I think like…
Laurie Watson, PhD (16:31.394)
You know, it could be so much more, you know, and I know there’s a guardedness and I just think, you know, the research shows that it’s secure sex, hot sex is open and responsive. And that means that we’re…
We’re actually sharing with each other about our feelings and we’re responding to the other partner. It’s a give and take in the moment. And that just seems so exciting to me. And I think that if you come in and you’re just performing or you’re trying to make your partner happy,
George (17:21.714)
I like the word heart and hot too. think it’s helping make it clearer why we’re kind of wrestling with this because, know, heart we associate with the connection and the emotion and hot we associate with the pleasure, right? And both are important to having great sex. And if we just focus on that, let’s just settle for the word connected sex.
Then we’re losing that part of sex that you want it for yourself, the pleasure that you’re pushing. You had to chase something and want something. That’s an important part of hot sex. But if we just emphasize the hot sex, a lot of people feel like, all right, we’re, we’re, leaving out the heart and that, right? It’s so focused on performance. So we’re trying to find this is please listen, give us feedback. You you come up with a word that captures both of these, cause that is exactly what, great sex is. It’s both hot and hot.
Laurie Watson, PhD (18:54.382)
of entering the experience. She wasn’t, she was not a sexual pursuer. She was a sexual withdraw, but she talked about, I just love the way he touches me and he’s been so much time touching me. And I love how safe I feel and, and uninhibited she feels. She says, neither one of us have inhibitions. And I just thought, wow, that is, it was just, I could feel it. I knew that she was having hot sex. You know, I mean, so.
George (19:25.992)
notice she can’t have that hot sex if she doesn’t have that heart piece online. How nice it must be to not be judged, to feel that safety where you can just be yourself, be radically present, right, in the moment, to just let yourself surrender into that. you know, that’s a perfect description of what you’re calling hot sex, which is really this combination of emotional safety and, you know, that pleasure principle.
Laurie Watson, PhD (19:55.18)
Right? Exactly. To me, it’s got to be emotional bonding and erotic intensity. And that to me is hot sex.
George (20:29.25)
testosterone helps with that.
George (20:57.08)
Mm-hmm.
George (21:49.324)
I think that percentage is a little bit higher for the men.
A little bit higher. Yeah, listen, that’s why we trying to get men to, they got the pleasure side of it down, the hot side of it. They got to develop more of that connected heart side of sex to have higher levels of engagement. Same message to women. They got the heart side down, right? How do they kind of tap more into their erotic energy that wants it for themselves? I mean, that’s the balance message we keep saying, right?
Laurie Watson, PhD (22:17.314)
That’s what I’m talking about. That’s what I’m talking about, yes. Absolutely. I mean, I think a male body works more reliably. And then think about in menopause, right? I had a woman in menopause tell me recently, you know, it takes me so much longer. And I’m like, no kidding, you’re in menopause. It’s gonna take you longer. I mean.
George (22:40.504)
you
Laurie Watson, PhD (23:01.474)
You know, and some women just give up on it in menopause. And I can’t imagine the disappointment, the frustration, the rage that a male partner would feel if a woman in menopause just says, not for me anymore. You know, I mean, some of it is driven physiologically. She doesn’t feel as much or she feels pain because she hasn’t gotten the right hormonal treatment. Again, let me just say out there, you should not be feeling pain. And there is treatment and not
George (23:55.513)
and a lot of men, can’t tell you how many men their biggest, their best friend is the vibrator. I mean, it has brought things much more alive and sped things up. And you know, sometimes men do get frustrated. It takes 20 minutes of this and then another 20 minutes of that before, you know, it could be a lot of work. So again, every once in a while you want to bust out a vibrator. Both sides can win with that one.
Laurie Watson, PhD (24:21.102)
every once in a while, how about most of the time? You know, I just think, but no, I agree, it is, and I can imagine as well, that it is so much work to arouse a woman, and especially if then you’re starting to think you should have an erection that whole time, right?
George (24:47.414)
Yeah.
George (24:56.6)
That’s a whole nother podcast that we can do. But maybe, you know, as we’re awaiting feedback from our listeners, you know, this word hot sex, if it works for you, and you see it the way we mean it, which is this two pronged emotional intimacy with a chastening of pleasure and erotic energy. Like that’s what we mean by hot sex.
You know, if you like connected sex or attached sex, help us understand, you know, the definitions of the words that fit you best.
Laurie Watson, PhD (25:31.544)
We’re talking about heart and hot sex when we talk about hot sex in general. Might be a new title, heart and hot sex. don’t know. Gotta work on that. Okay, thanks for listening, y’all.
