In today’s episode we are defining longings in a relationship. George and Laurie identify two different types of longing. The first seen as a more physical and emotional pain around an unmet need. These are longings that have to do with not being seen, or heard and require comfort and reassurance to restore safety.
The second type of longing centers on growth and expansion. It is where we work to express our desire, pleasure and fantasies to one another. When there has been a prolonged negative cycle, longings typically are about safety and many couples struggle with longings that promote pleasure. What does the idea of longings bring up in you? Are yours more focused on safety or growth? Make sure to listen and share this episode with your love to learn more about what your longings are and how to express them in your relationship.
Check out this episode’s sponsor (and help keep it hot!):
Uberlube.com — Laurie’s long-time favorite personal lubricant!
Transcript
Laurie Watson, PhD (00:02.318)
Okie doke. Smook.
Laurie Watson, PhD (00:18.414)
Okay, we’re gonna talk about longings, the things we long for. That seems so sexy actually. Bring it on. Okay. Okay, G, you’ve been working on this with your peeps in success and vulnerability. Again, George’s training program for therapists.
George (00:27.708)
you
Laurie Watson, PhD (00:46.828)
successandvulnerability.com. And you’ve just done a little training on longings for us to think about what that is. Can you talk to us about kind of the two kinds of longings that are important for us as growth, as couples, but also kind of what you’ve come to about this?
George (01:10.874)
We’re only as good as our team, right? So I think that’s why I love working with Lori. Just kind of when you surround yourself with different perspectives, you just can see things you normally can’t see and you can do more together than in isolation. So, it’s part of what most of the time she puts out with me most of the time.
Laurie Watson, PhD (01:24.563)
Thank you. I’m glad you love working with me.
most of the time.
George (01:35.35)
But this is another one of those expressions with, know, trying to have people say, hey, we use this word longing and everybody throws it around. It’s like love. But what does it even mean? Like, if you’re not really sure, if you’re not can’t get specific, it’s really hard to to use it and to strategically figure out timing of things. So, you know, longing is an ache right in our heart that’s trying to.
Laurie Watson, PhD (01:44.974)
Hmm.
George (01:59.42)
point us in a direction of what it is we want and what it is we need, right? So we all have these longings. I mean, it’s the most beautiful part of life. This is the force we’re trying to tap into all the time to kind of get us, it’s pointing us towards connection, towards vulnerability, towards great sex, towards what makes us feel alive. I mean, this is the beauty of it all.
Laurie Watson, PhD (01:59.607)
Mm. Mm.
Mmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (02:17.302)
yeah. And I love that you describe it that way, an ache. I remember when Derek and I were dating, we had this like little moment that got insecure and we weren’t sure if we were going to go on together. And I literally remember feeling, I wanted to go forward, but he felt, you he was unsure for a little bit. And I felt this ache. I can feel it as we…
George (02:44.732)
Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (02:44.734)
say that word right now in my chest. That achy like, you know, want and longing for him, for us to work, for it to all work out. Yeah. Oof. Ache. That’s a good one.
George (03:02.684)
It’s a great motivational force. It does rally us, energize us to try to, even if we grow up in families, never to get it. There’s still a part of us that wants something. And it’s that want that’s deep inside you. To me, really, what a longing is. A longing to be known, to be seen, to be wanted, to be loved, to feel safe. That’s the air we need to live in.
Laurie Watson, PhD (03:05.207)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (03:31.158)
Yeah, yeah. So it’s the longing to be wanted and needed and loved. I agree. It’s, you know, it’s so human, you know, to want to be special to somebody chosen, desired. Yes, yes, yes.
George (03:50.012)
Yes, he’s feeling yeses and lorries longings coming out. And these things cut across culture, gender, sexual orientation. I every human born on this planet, even if they have the most traumatic upbringings and get as defensive as possible, there’s something deep within them.
Laurie Watson, PhD (03:53.998)
You
George (04:07.706)
why a lot of us have spiritual beliefs about this. Like this is why we’re made to be in relationship, to be in connection. And these longings are part of our soul, our spirit, our bodies, our minds. It’s just intertwined everywhere.
Laurie Watson, PhD (04:18.03)
Mm.
So true, so true.
George (04:23.224)
So trying to get more specific, that’s a good general start. But in our clinical practice, what we’re seeing, especially in Lori and I, is we’re trying to focus on the emotional and sexual cycle. What do they have in common? What do they have different? They both have longings, they both have fears. Those are two sides of the same coin, Fears, hurts, and then longings, desires, they’re all, again, intertwined.
But the way I’m trying to break it down is to say, see longings like two broad categories. There’s longings when we’re threatened. Right? So those are longings for help, comfort, reassurance. We’re scared. You know, we’re feeling vulnerable. Our needs are not being met. We always say negative cycles are unmet needs. People are protecting themselves because that threat, they need something. They’re not getting it. So that’s the first category. Like what?
Laurie Watson, PhD (05:02.924)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (05:10.391)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (05:15.404)
Mm-hmm.
George (05:17.71)
What that longing is, can you see me? I often don’t feel seen when you walk away or that longing is, you know, I’m always, feel like I’m failing. The longing is that you’re love me. And if I fail, mean, these are these powerful needs for safety in places of struggle.
Laurie Watson, PhD (05:22.722)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (05:34.87)
Right. So this is the longing for reassurance and comfort and being seen in the places that are difficult.
George (05:43.034)
Yes. Yeah, these are the unmet needs because those longings are not being addressed, right? That’s what leads to negative cycles. All right. So that’s the first part of a longing.
Laurie Watson, PhD (05:48.458)
unmet needs. Right.
I’m typing that in here. Keep going.
Laurie Watson, PhD (06:00.044)
Mm-hmm.
George (06:00.23)
But once that you get the reassurance, you know, we’re not done that now the second type of long. And for me is like, not at the long it has been met. The need has been met. You are feeling safer. Now the long it is about growth and expansion and desire and wants and pleasure, like the positive stuff. Like my fear is I’m not seeing you comfort me with that fear.
Laurie Watson, PhD (06:14.786)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
George (06:26.498)
Now it wants to shift to what is it like to be seen? What is that like? Most of the time when I try to help couples put words out, they have no words. We don’t really put words to when it’s working or the positive part of it, which I think is even more important than the negative part of it. And we certainly see this sexually, right? If if my fear is that I’m not performing or I’m failing or whatever, I’m inadequate and I get comfort from my partner with that.
Laurie Watson, PhD (06:30.306)
Hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (06:35.234)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (06:40.855)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (06:44.758)
Mm.
George (06:54.02)
Now that that energy is freed up, it should redirect itself for me to reengage. What do I want? What do I like? You know, what are my desires? Like that is, that is really the essence of the longings, full expression, the expansion, because it’s trying to lead us towards growth and energy.
Laurie Watson, PhD (07:04.322)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (07:11.31)
Yeah, and I want to slow you down for a minute because you said something that I think is important, that when this need, the unmet need is met and we’re seeing there, you and I assume that that gives a basis for growth, for expansion and want and the desire for pleasure. And I mean, we’re basing our life on this, right, that when we comfort the unmet need, people have
George (07:21.04)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (07:40.462)
more courage inside to take the next step to expose themselves, to be vulnerable, to want, to have pleasure. I’ve worked with a couple and I think in many ways my failing has been going too fast. And I realized that one of the things that really needs to be seen is just
the very beginning place of what’s inside. I think when you’re the partner who’s looking at maybe the sexual erotic side of a person who is really empty, it’s really scary to want to go there and comfort them. If I go there and I comfort them, I’m accepting this. we believe that in acceptance, in being
affirm for where we’re actually at, that that gives a basis that has never been given before that allows that person to grow from there. And so it is really scary to meet the longing in a person when you’re going to something, you know, particularly sexually that feels pretty empty. It’s like, no, if I affirm that and see that and accept that, maybe that we’re going to stay there, but
We just know there’s a growth principle inside all of us, That to be human is to want to grow. But we can’t sometimes, we’re broken sometimes. We’ve never been seen in these places. Should have happened, could have happened, didn’t happen. And so as partners, we go to those dark places, we comfort them. And then the reward is that the person can grow. But as a pursuer, we got to like give it some.
George (09:35.932)
Yeah, we have confidence in this because there’s thousands and thousands of research studies out there on attachment. And this is how little kids do it, right? If you are safe and you have a secure place where your threats are reassured, then you can go out and expand and explore and face the world in a much more resilient way. And we never outgrow that process. So that’s what I’m saying. These two levels of the longings are the first one is that yellow brain needs reassurance when threatened, when scared.
Laurie Watson, PhD (09:36.46)
some space.
Laurie Watson, PhD (09:51.532)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (09:56.97)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
George (10:05.906)
head when hurt, like you got to resource that person, right? And that when you kind of resource, you turn that yellow brain green, that second lung and is now in a green brain. What do you do? This is the pleasure part. This is the, this is the exploration. This is the desire part because the green brain wants to grow. That’s what it’s, it’s looking for novelty and new things and exploration. This is the fun stuff. And both are really important.
Laurie Watson, PhD (10:27.992)
That’s right. That’s right.
George (10:32.24)
So if you’re listening, we’re not saying one is it. Both are important to get reassurance when we’re threatened to have that secure base. I mean, that safe haven to return to and have that secure base to launch out into the world to explore.
Laurie Watson, PhD (10:45.408)
Right. And how do we meet our partner in that growth place? Like, what does that look like? Like, what are you saying? There’s a longing there. We know that to be human is to long to grow. Boy, I’ll tell you, there’s a lot of sexual pursuers out there, George, who saying, not my partner, and they don’t long to grow at all here. It’s so scary.
George (10:55.034)
Yeah, it is.
George (11:04.187)
Mm-hmm.
George (11:12.806)
But that’s what they do. What they do is they focus on their partner all the time instead of focusing on themselves. know, pursuers looked for the partner to solve the problem. But if you look at like, what are some to feel desired, to be seen, to feel special, to feel powerful, to be adored, to feel in control, playful, acceptance, belonging, being irresistible, like all of these kind of, you know, we talk about Peggy Kleinplat’s work around.
Laurie Watson, PhD (11:18.862)
Mm-hmm.
George (11:41.372)
openness, authenticity, gratitude, growth, intimacy, know, curiosity, spirituality. mean, those are all positive things. That’s all the body wanting something for itself. wants to be part of something bigger than itself. It’s not just looking for comfort and reassurance. It’s looking to grow. Right. And this, this to me, if we don’t get that second part of the longing, Matt, if we just leave it at safety and security.
Laurie Watson, PhD (11:44.342)
Mm-hmm. Spirituality, spiritual sex, transcendence.
Laurie Watson, PhD (11:53.218)
Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (11:57.453)
Mm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (12:04.013)
Mm-hmm.
George (12:11.972)
and we don’t fly, we’re really not having the secure love, the great sex that people who are the best lovers in the world enjoy.
Laurie Watson, PhD (12:12.141)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (12:20.342)
Yeah, I play with a toddler on a playground these days. And one of the things I notice is he falls down. I hold him, comfort him. And then he goes right out and explores further. Like, can leave me even with a further distance, is interested again in the world around him. But it’s like making sure he’s safe first and he feels comforted. There’s this
automatic thing in him that he wants to explore, wants to expand his world, wants to go further. And that’s the principle that we’re talking about is this the first longing met will allow for the second longing for growth.
George (13:05.788)
Beautifully said, beautifully said. Well, let’s come back and talk more about it.
Laurie Watson, PhD (13:07.65)
Yeah. Okay.
We only halfway? Dang, I thought we were. No, no, we’re doing good. Let’s I think we should. I don’t know. I was kind of thinking, but the only thing we really can do is OK, let’s start again. So so George, OK.
George (13:13.212)
Yeah, just halfway. It was a good half, but I’m not sure what else to say, we’ll just do a, all right. Roll play it.
George (13:26.64)
Go.
Laurie Watson, PhD (13:30.474)
You’re saying there’s two longings, one to be comforted, one for growth. Two parts of the, yeah, yeah.
George (13:34.522)
or two parts of the long and I’m not really sure. And a lot of what Laurie and I are doing, we’re developing ideas, we welcome feedback, we don’t say we have all the answers. I like going to a place where I don’t know. I trust if I hang out there long enough, things will become a little bit clearer and that’s how we grow and get excited.
Laurie Watson, PhD (13:50.958)
Yeah. And if you’re listening here and you’re like, A, it’s not about like my life or, you know, we love your letters and feedback. And if you just want to pick a point with us, that’s that’s OK, too. We we would welcome that. So because it helps us get sharper. Right. Iron sharpens iron. So.
George (14:09.71)
And a shout out to our patrons that join us in our longings, right to help make some of this possible. It’s so it is really important when people believe in your mission and support that in the ways that they can. And, you know, that means a lot to Lori and I.
Laurie Watson, PhD (14:12.735)
thank you.
Laurie Watson, PhD (14:24.718)
Yeah, and for the record, there’s a patron out there who gave us a lovely gift. Thank you so much. And I cannot contact him for some reason or another. So email me at foreplay if that is who you are rather than just doing the patron thing and I’ll get back to you. There’s there’s a little glitch right now. I can receive patron support, but I can’t get back to you. So we’ll fix that. anyway. OK, on to longings again. So
As we think about this growth motive that is, we just think is innate. Obviously there’s blocks, there’s trauma, there’s, you know, inhibition. There’s, there’s all kinds of things that stop us pressure. The cycle stops us in pressure, but, but once we get that comforted, it’s almost like whatever held us down now is no longer there. And so.
George (15:22.886)
Yep.
Laurie Watson, PhD (15:24.558)
the part of us that just the plant in us, the life force in us just wants to come out and grow. And sexually, we expect that growth. And maybe it’s not in wild and crazy swings and vibrators. Maybe it’s about depth and meaning and the way that you grow. mean, it doesn’t have to look the same way for everybody.
George (15:51.896)
Exactly. And that’s it’s just being your authentic self. And what is it that you don’t know about yourself that maybe you want to explore? And what do you know about your partner you want to explore? And again, not to limit this to the sexual cycle. Same thing emotionally. I can’t tell you how many partners I work with that have paragraphs and words upon words on what it’s like when their needs are not met and they’re not seen or they’re not heard. And then they finally are heard. And I’m like, what’s that
Laurie Watson, PhD (16:01.112)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (16:18.189)
Mm-hmm.
George (16:21.79)
like, they’re like, good. Like they have nothing. Their brain has no practice putting words to what it feels like to be safe, to be seen. That should lead to the same growth. If I’m feeling really safe and seen by my partner, emotionally, I should be able to take more risks and be more exploratory and curious and playful. should see the same signs in the bedroom outside the bedroom when people actually get into this green plane.
Laurie Watson, PhD (16:30.232)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (16:34.146)
Mmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (16:43.181)
Mm-hmm.
George (16:51.728)
Green Brain Exploration Mode.
Laurie Watson, PhD (16:53.048)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
George (16:56.25)
My brain always says expansion, growth, play, like that those positive emotions that are trying, just like you said, that little kid that just goes out into the world and everything’s new and fresh. It’s like, look at that bird. No, wait, look at that dandelion. Wait, wait, there’s a ball over there. I there’s so much that’s just engaging and just that they want to be with. like that we’re never too old for that energy. I mean, this world is incredible.
Laurie Watson, PhD (17:13.46)
I know.
Laurie Watson, PhD (17:19.084)
Yeah.
Yeah.
George (17:24.144)
the things that are out there to explore it endless. Like it’s all, we get our own ways, because we self-focus on the negative all the time, that we miss these opportunities that are always before us.
Laurie Watson, PhD (17:34.168)
Hmm. Right. So what would it look like, like for, mean, for a pursuer, sexual pursuer, because they, they too, sometimes, like you said, focus on the partner, what the partner’s not giving them. And so this growth, maybe they’re going to say to us, I am, I got, I’m full of ideas sexually.
George (17:52.305)
Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (18:04.152)
But I often find pursuers, I don’t know, there are ways that they can grow that are still helpful. I mean, some of them actually are kind of inhibited. They don’t talk about their fantasies. Maybe they talk about the next gadget or encounter, but they don’t necessarily talk about what they feel inside.
what they want the encounter to feel like. mean, there are still ways, I think that.
You know, I’m a sexual pursuer and I’m always challenging myself, what would that look like inside for me to grow? Which I, trust me, I think I have plenty of ways to grow. So I’m not, I don’t think I’m arrived in any way.
George (18:43.344)
I think, yeah.
George (18:49.934)
I think pursuers focus way too much on what they’re not getting or what their partner’s not doing instead of what they want, which is a much clearer signal. So.
Laurie Watson, PhD (18:54.498)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
George (19:01.222)
I don’t know why I use this example. When people tease me, it might be some unconscious thing. But listen to the difference how it sounds. Like if I say to my partner, can you spank me? Right? Because that’s something I want. But it puts the pressure on you. It’s like, can you do this thing? And I’m probably expecting you not to want to do this thing. And it’s like, it’s very different. Instead, I say, you know what? I really get turned on by spanking.
Laurie Watson, PhD (19:12.386)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (19:16.226)
Mm-hmm.
George (19:28.516)
That’s more of an invitation to your partner. You want to engage in this? You can if you don’t. I’m not asking anything. I’m just talking about my own world. I don’t think sexual pursuers do a lot of that. They don’t.
Laurie Watson, PhD (19:36.706)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, they’d have to go a lot further than that, right?
George (19:42.982)
Yeah. But that shift that shift, right? That’s saying, this is me and I want to explore and express me instead of focusing on how you’re going to hear it, how I can make you hear it better. Like there’s so much energy they get. That’s really my fears. It’s not really that green brain expression of who I am and what I want.
Laurie Watson, PhD (20:03.594)
Mm-hmm. And what I mean is like, okay, go further with that. Like, what would you say about spanking? Like, you want to, you want to say, set up the scenario or the, you know, like how it turns you on? Is it just raw spanking that you get your body turns on and you have an orgasm or what is it about it? You know.
George (20:25.85)
Yeah. So that’s why I take something that’s kind of out of character. I really don’t think I am into pain sexually. So I’m trying to take the stuff that, know, let’s, let’s see. Yeah. mean, but I think what it could be is if we would have fun and who knows maybe 10 years from now I’ll want something like that, but I think it would be something about not being in control of, of feeling, you know,
Laurie Watson, PhD (20:29.614)
Maybe handcuffs, George. The old policeman part of you.
George (20:52.736)
someone else can be stronger than I in a moment. Like it’s a role reversal. It’s a part of me I might not know so much about. Who knows? That’s the fantasy element of all these things. But that’s what we’re trying to encourage. Instead of me focusing on my partner and trying to get them to do things, I got to…
fight for myself to even understand what is some of these things that I like or don’t like you like your, your toes sucked. Why? mean, what is that about in you that you want to invite your partner?
Laurie Watson, PhD (21:15.182)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (21:22.878)
That’s about oral sex, buddy. Just for the record. No. Yeah, isn’t it? I mean, it’s like mock oral sex. It’s so sexy. It’s like people imagine their toes being sucked. They imagine their clitoris or penis being sucked. Don’t you think?
George (21:26.544)
That’s what toe sucking is? I have no idea.
George (21:39.758)
It could go a lot of different ways. It could be because it’s dirty. If you want to suck my toes, you’re like really super into me. It could be sensual because your toes are never really touched and it lacks touch. mean, who knows? Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (21:46.807)
Hmm.
Right. Very sensual place. Very sensual place of the body, the toes. Absolutely.
George (21:55.068)
I don’t want to admit this, but I will. What the hell? I got, I got after nine 11, I mean, had so many people down at ground zero trying to kind of help in between breaks and everything else. And, know, in the beginning that didn’t happen, but as the months wore on and they knew that, you know, they’d force you to take, you know, three hours breaks and you’d sit there.
Laurie Watson, PhD (21:58.288)
what the hell.
Laurie Watson, PhD (22:12.942)
Hmm.
George (22:17.264)
they actually had, never heard of reflexology. They were kind of rub your feet, know, climbing around for 20 hours straight over things and you you’re hurt. And all of sudden like, no, we can do this. like, so I was like, I didn’t want to do it. If I was hit a corner with nobody saw me as like, give it a shot. I was one of the best fields I’ve had in my life. I didn’t want to anything. Afterwards I was ashamed. just put my boots back on and went to work. But I was like, I felt pretty amazing.
Laurie Watson, PhD (22:20.715)
Hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (22:34.51)
You
Laurie Watson, PhD (22:46.382)
Yeah, that’s…
George (22:47.152)
Maybe that’s why my wife’s always getting pedicures.
Laurie Watson, PhD (22:50.134)
Yeah, exactly. Pedicures, you know, they rub your feet too. They like massage your calves. What?
George (22:54.268)
You know, I still have never gotten a pedicure. I still have never gotten a pedicure.
Laurie Watson, PhD (22:59.758)
Oh man, okay, you’re gonna have to come down to North Carolina. We’ve got reflexology to do, pedicures. So cool, so cool.
George (23:04.434)
I think I’m gonna hold on to that one.
Laurie Watson, PhD (23:12.714)
I don’t know where to go after that, George. You’ve just admitted this whole thing. Okay, so what we’re talking about though is in growth, you might want to talk about fantasies that you’ve had. Toe sucking or spanking or those do seem to come up a lot.
George (23:14.812)
I don’t know either. We’re all over the place.
George (23:33.398)
Just because they’re a little jolt into the brain, think. Not judging people I want it or don’t want it.
Laurie Watson, PhD (23:34.03)
Yeah, yeah, just a jolt. Yeah, so.
George (23:42.352)
We always get those calls afterwards. We’re not endorsing anything. This is just the playground for people to do what they want. But that is the green brain positive longings. That’s the growth mindset. Not that you always have to do new things, but if you want to, you can express that and you can see how that would be like a little kid running into the field and looking for things to have fun with.
Laurie Watson, PhD (24:03.51)
Yeah, yeah. And we want people to feel free to explore and to grow in ways that make sense to them.
George (24:14.844)
Great lovers are relaxed. This is what green brains do when they’re relaxed. When your grandkids running around playing, they’re not worried about what’s gonna go wrong. They’re just looking for the next adventure.
Laurie Watson, PhD (24:17.56)
Right.
Laurie Watson, PhD (24:24.984)
Mm-mm.
Mm-hmm.
George (24:27.992)
And this is what we’re trying to tap into. And if you’re not tapping into that, you have good reasons. You have a lot of pressure and cycles, like Laurie said, things that block this. But if you could identify those gas, those breaks and kind of let those breaks off, this is gas pedal stuff, right? This is the good stuff of what makes life worth living.
Laurie Watson, PhD (24:47.838)
Absolutely. And I think that
maybe imagining like.
the time when you felt the least inhibited, and then on top of that, like what would it be like if you didn’t have those inhibitions? Like what would you want? What would you ask for? What would you think about? What would you allow yourself to fantasize about? What about the secret garden inside? And not saying you have to reveal that, but you know, wow, what would that be like to have some of that?
George (25:24.25)
Yeah. And even if it’s not introducing new things, it’s getting better at appreciating the things you’re already doing. That gratitude that says, thank you. You really do see me. You really do make me feel safe. I love the way you touch me. Letting your partner know what they’re doing right. It’s just, it’s such, it makes our brain start to focus on the positive instead of the negatives all the time.
Laurie Watson, PhD (25:42.478)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And let’s just say a word of caution to the pursuer. Last thing here, that if your partner is growing sexually and telling you these things, you know, let them grow, right? Maybe don’t completely take it over and fulfill it all or make it the next mission. You know, it could just like, I think when somebody is growing and developing, they need to
grow at their own pace and kind of let them guide it. I think as a pursuer, there’s such a temptation to wanna like, okay, you told me this, let’s capitalize on this, let’s overdo it, right? That’s the caretaking cycle that overdoes. It’s like an extreme. We wanna match people, you know, as they’re coming forward and growing, we need to witness. We don’t always need to take it over.
George (26:25.244)
Mm-hmm.
George (26:40.636)
as soon as nice.
Laurie Watson, PhD (26:42.114)
Nice. Okay, thanks for listening.
George (26:45.835)
Keep it hot, y’all.
