In today’s episode, hosts Laurie and George are taking listeners to the islands! Islands of Security explores the places where secure attachment lives—those small but powerful moments where partners feel safe, seen, and able to find each especially during times of struggle.
You’ll walk away from this show with great ideas on how to develop more islands of security through intentional connection, imperfect action, meeting caregiving needs and managing the high and low roads.
Set your calendars for September 2026 to pick up a copy of our book Brave Love, Great Sex and make sure to follow us on our socials @BraveLoveGreatSex
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Transcript
George (00:07.4)
Islands of security moments of secure attachment. What what are we talking about? Laurie?
Laurie Watson, PhD (00:15.438)
I don’t know, but it sounds good. It sounds like that is something where desire can live.
George (00:22.104)
Messiah lives there.
All right, so.
Laurie Watson, PhD (00:26.857)
Okay, we have our book 2026, the fall of 2026, Brave Love Great Sex coming out in September. Get ready.
George (00:41.944)
Get ready, everyone. Make it a best seller for us. Let’s go.
Laurie Watson, PhD (00:43.931)
It’s still… Woo! We’ll let you know when to buy it.
George (00:48.586)
Anybody knows Oprah, you know, make the phone call for us, all right?
Laurie Watson, PhD (00:52.529)
Yeah, exactly.
George (00:55.298)
So let’s talk about islands of security. I really liked the term. You know, it’s, it’s got a long history in the attachment literature, but I was just watching some interviews of Mario Michelanza, who’s one of the foremost attachment researchers. And he really stressed, you know, what is an island of security? It really is a felt sense in the body that you’re, you experienced a moment of connection.
You know, a really like a special moment when your body needed something and it was met by caregiving. Right. And that’s, that’s where we get that, that electric moment of connection, right? That when you have that, no matter what else happens in life, your body stores that it holds onto it. Not only does it remember that moment, but it wants more of it. And that moment becomes a beacon for the future of kind of what you’re looking for.
Laurie Watson, PhD (01:47.261)
Mm. Mm.
George (01:49.272)
Right? So really in therapy, we’re trying to string along these islands, grow these islands. The more we know what that looks like, the target gets easier and easier to hit.
Laurie Watson, PhD (01:58.941)
You know, I have a grandchild, I actually have several now, and I was watching one of them with his mother. And he had been hurt, and his mother came down, picked him up, and he turned toward her breasts, of like crawled inside her almost. And she held him and rocked him and talked softly to him, and then eventually kind of distracted him from his worries and brought him back into the world of playing.
like that’s it. That’s totally what we want to have happen, right? That’s a secure island. You know, he’s completely accepted. He’s held literally and emotionally. He’s safe. And those kinds of moments are right, what building us security and what we want to do for each other.
George (02:43.342)
Yeah.
George (02:49.728)
Exactly. And he probably never remember that moment, but his body will always remember that moment. Right. The body doesn’t know time and it holds on to it’s like a snapshot of these moments saying this is where it’s supposed to be. Like this feeling that I have when I was scared and hurt, you know, and I was met by a caregiving system that responded with love. All of a sudden that pain and fear transformed into feeling kind of connected.
Laurie Watson, PhD (02:52.691)
Nope.
Laurie Watson, PhD (02:56.016)
always.
George (03:18.344)
loved and cherished like that is such a profound shift.
Laurie Watson, PhD (03:22.895)
Exactly, exactly. And this is what we want couples to do for each other, right? To create these moments, these islands of security where they feel safe, where they hold each other, and they’re struggling, maybe sexually and emotionally, but they find security in each other.
George (03:43.678)
Exactly. What I love that what he did is he expanded it. That’s such a important way through your partner, but there are so many other ways of also getting caregiving, right? We can get it from a friend. You know, we maybe got it from our grandmother, like you’re giving it to your grandkids. You know, we can get it from God and we can give it to ourselves, right? It’s really just about having caregiving brought to the need.
And, know, which leads to these islands of security. So Sue Johnson shows, A really great video of her working with a really traumatized individual where, you know, she was abused in every so many different ways. It really is a heartbreaking story. And she has no partner. She has no where to go with it. She doesn’t have any secure attachment. So kind of like you talk about looking for glimmers.
You know, Sue went looking for glimmers of islands of security in her past and she gave this touching story. Like she wasn’t good at anything except as a gymnast early in her life. She was the best on the balance beam. There was something about when she was on a balance beam and she had all this fear and this anxiety that she could kind of through all the discipline and training.
she could kind of respond to herself, you know, with those fears and overcome those fears and get to a place of confidence. Like she would do this flip in the air with the confidence, I’m going to land on that beam. You know, and this was a very different person than the rest of the world sees who’s kind of beaten down and insecure. Like this is an island within her. Her body knows what it’s like to kind of respond to herself with caregiving and see the proof of caregiving, right? I mean, that’s the good news.
These islands of security, you know, they lead to feeling safe, secure, connected, positive, confident, curiosity, empathy. Like all the good stuff are the byproduct of these moments. So when we look at moments of your life when you felt this way, there’s probably islands of security.
Laurie Watson, PhD (05:48.808)
Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (05:54.569)
I think what I’m hearing too is right. These islands of security are in our body. You said our body remembers, but also for this woman, the body remembers trauma as well. And the fact that athletics, gymnastics, which you know, speaks to my heart because I was a gymnast, you know, that she can trust her body in a positive way in one, you know, in one area. It’s like all of these other things she couldn’t trust.
George (06:01.996)
Yep.
George (06:20.897)
Yep.
Laurie Watson, PhD (06:24.361)
You know, she was traumatized, violated, big problems. But here, she had a relationship with her own body that was good, that was secure. And isn’t it wonderful the way the human desire to become secure, to succeed, to become, you know, a person all that we can be, you know, takes tiny little bits of light and hope and can maximize that. And so,
George (06:33.739)
Yes.
Laurie Watson, PhD (06:54.301)
What did Sue, how did Sue help her with that moment to bring it into more security?
George (07:01.057)
I don’t remember the details, you know me, Lori, but she went searching for just examples in the past of where she might’ve felt differently. And this is typically how it happens. She said, I was really good on the balance beam. And I think a lot of us would have been, that’s nice, on to the next thing. And Sue just slowed down and said, tell me about the balance beam. And it opened up this whole, and I love the word that you used, it’s like.
We’ve earned trust with ourselves. The body trusts on that balance beam that the fears are not going to be overwhelming, that she’ll be able to respond and actually feel good about herself. It’s one of the few areas where she trusted feeling good about herself, right? Which is a really important island of security. Because when the tapes and the storms come first, it’s hard to remember the moments. You know, our story becomes all this lousy
Laurie Watson, PhD (07:50.877)
Yeah.
George (07:57.794)
kind of broken down person and we forget, you know, all these little islands. So that’s what’s so important about an island is that when you can remember it, it is that beacon into the future that says, a second. That place is still waiting for you. A new place like it is waiting for you, right? What you were able to do back then you could still do, right? If you find that trust, if you find that caregiving response.
Laurie Watson, PhD (08:20.733)
Yeah, that is beautiful. I mean, I think our body can help us, right? We can become stable through success in many ways. I mean, I have also heard of people who make use of tiny moments of light. One teacher who said, you’re a good creative writer.
You know, like these little moments where we feel secure, where we feel seen, where we can trust the person or we can trust ourselves.
George (08:56.417)
That’s caregiving, right? Somebody was focused on you, believed in you, saw you, responded to you, right? We all need that to grow and to thrive. So to really think of moments in our life, you know, maybe we were down and we were struggling, but those are the moments when somebody comes along, doesn’t add just more pressure, more negative messages, but actually has a message that your body can take in.
That’s these caregiving responses that are so important for all of us.
Laurie Watson, PhD (09:27.153)
And because I was a gymnast, also know that to become a great gymnast, you need a great coach.
George (09:33.837)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (09:33.863)
You know, so there are many times that the coaches they’re spotting you, catching you, know, adjusting your stance. So so maybe, you know, maybe they didn’t get to this in the film, but there is often a relational component to a sport that is very healing, right? You have to trust somebody in order to to take that kind of risk to jump backwards on a, you know, four inch beam. You have to trust your own body, but you also get there.
George (09:46.861)
Of course. Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (10:01.233)
with somebody holding you through that process.
George (10:04.469)
somebody helped her get there. But I do like that she got to a place where that becomes internalized, where you can give that to yourself. You know, so a lot of our listeners, if they’re not in a relationship, I mean, it’s all right. So how do you give care given to yourself? How do you replace some of these critical tapes that just continue to take us down with more compassionate tapes that, know, hey, we’re trying the best we can. You know, it is amazing. The proof is in the pudding, right? The proof is in how your body responds.
If you start feeling better, less alone, more seen, that’s a sign that you’re probably getting care given.
Laurie Watson, PhD (10:40.487)
Right. And also, what’s so beautiful about it is it’s reciprocal, right? Once we feel safe, we take more risks, which increase the trust between us and our partner, which comes back as an island of security. So we kind of stretch those times of feeling secure even further. You know, I mean, it’s a great system. It’s a positive loop.
We talk about the negative cycle a lot, but this is a positive cycle where we’re risking because we feel safe and then we land in a way that, you know, feels safe, feels on target.
George (11:19.581)
I love all of us to just, as we’re listening, just think back in time. Think of moments where maybe people showed up for you, right? You had a rough childhood, but in the garden, your grandmother was able to kind of just focus on what an amazing little planter you are. You’re having that catch with an uncle who once a month would just come by. it’s in these moments where really the focus is on you and you start to feel seen and special.
Laurie Watson, PhD (11:38.014)
Yeah.
George (11:48.609)
Like your body holds on to that. That’s how important these islands are.
Laurie Watson, PhD (11:52.797)
Yeah, exactly. OK, one more grandmother example. You know, I bought these little plastic balls and I was going to do all these, you know, fun games with my grandson with it. And then I thought, I wonder what he wants to do with them. And for an hour, I just watched him move through the playroom, sort of. I didn’t really even need to interact that much. It was just I was present observing him.
Like, and it was just amazing. was like within that sense of presence, being loved and cared for. He had great attention. He was enjoying himself. He was very happy. It didn’t really take that much, you know, to play with a child. I think we think we have to be entertaining, but really we just need to be present. And it’s the same sort of thing with our partner, right? We don’t necessarily have to do that much to heal them. We just have to be present.
as they go through it.
George (12:49.953)
I certainly can feel this in my relationship with God. If I’m in moments of stress and I take a moment and I just kind of think about what’s bothering me and I can kind of try to turn and say, hey, God, can you help me with this? know, feeling like.
Laurie Watson, PhD (13:05.458)
Mm.
George (13:07.563)
God can focus on that and be like, all right, it’s going to be okay. Like that, that care given that I get can really just kind of calm my anxiety down. So there a lot of different ways we can get this care given, but let’s come back and talk about, you know, sexually, how we could kind of introduce more of this concept of secure Island islands of security.
Laurie Watson, PhD (13:28.623)
Okay. So, George, first I want to go back for a minute to your concept of God and how that gives you more security. It’s like, I think it was similar, right, to what I was demonstrating with my grandchild. It’s this sense of God is watching and is present with you and you’re safe, you’re accepted, you’re held. And all of that gives you the confidence, like, okay, it’s going to be okay.
George (13:58.046)
And if it’s not okay, there’s a reason it’s not okay. There’s a plan here, right? There’s somebody who loves me and wants what’s best for me and that I trust in that. And again, it’s that moment like a child. It’s like I trust when you describe that your grandson being picked up and held to his mom’s breast, like those are similar moments.
Laurie Watson, PhD (14:22.299)
Yeah, exactly. So let’s talk about it sexually. How do you see the islands of security kind of operating in the sexual realm?
George (14:31.719)
I think it’s an area we want to get more clear about because there’s a lot less focus on that. And I think that’s a big…
passion for us in this podcast, like this, the importance of that sexual cycle and that the sexual attachment system, the physical system, you know, needs more examination and exploration. So I do think it’s similar to what you talk a lot about, which is catching glimmers, right? Catching glimmers are moments where sex or touch was working for you and your body remembers that. Like there was a time when you like liked
going, getting dressed up and going out on a date and, you know, dancing and like, like these moments where your body enjoyed the physicality is still there. still within your body, but the pressures of life and kind of the negativities have kind of suffocated those things. Right. So being able to kind of just go back in time and think about when more moments physically were actually felt engaged, safe and open.
Laurie Watson, PhD (15:23.9)
Mm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (15:34.311)
Yeah, lovely. I think what is powerful about security in the sexual realm is, again, it’s part of the body. And we know that relationships are body and soul, right? We want to feel emotionally safe with our partner. But in our body, it’s like irrefutable evidence that we are safe. So when there’s those moments of being physically maybe not pressured,
not feeling like we need to perform and we’re erotically connected. It’s so reinforcing because it’s a tangible truth. Feeling that security is a tangible truth.
George (16:10.891)
Yes.
George (16:14.903)
Yes. And sometimes to do that, we have to think about other relationships. And sometimes this freaks partners out, but you know, it’s not about the person. was just about what the body learned in that encounter. So I remember working with a couple where the wife was talking about a first boyfriend who was, you know, a real jerk and not somebody she’d ever want to be with, but he really had this great quality of getting so listen and so intently.
that he hung on every word that she said as they were laying down next to each other. And it was something about that, just intensity of attention and how he listened that her body just like, even talking about it 25 years later, she can feel what it did to her that just have that super focused attention on her and how much she enjoyed. Like it felt like he was, he was enamored with her that he adored like just hanging on every word.
Laurie Watson, PhD (16:47.689)
Mm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (17:14.315)
yeah.
George (17:18.749)
And that’s an island of security. It’s, a, it’s a signal of what she really needs to feel safe and engaged.
Laurie Watson, PhD (17:25.775)
Exactly. Interest is sexy. You know, it’s so powerful to have somebody present with you repeating what you’re saying. You know, and that can get lost in the dailiness of living and, you know, worries about raising children, paying bills, all that. We barely can listen to each other, but I get it. You know, and I think that.
I think for some couples, they are threatened by the comparison when they talk about other partners. But for others, we can learn from it. Like, what made desire so potent for you at that time? And learning from past experiences or even fantasy experiences, we can then use those moments to create kind more islands of security with our partner, where it’s safe to explore.
George (17:53.996)
Yes.
Laurie Watson, PhD (18:19.239)
you know, and that exploration leads to more curiosity and that curiosity kind of reawakens our desire for each other.
George (18:27.329)
Yeah. And even if we don’t have past memories, that doesn’t mean we can have future targets of what that looks like. And I like how you bring in the fantasy element. What would it look like your islands of security? If you’re really getting focused on what would make you feel safe, connected, grounded, alive, seen, wanted, like all that good stuff. And we know great lovers, this is what they’re able to give each other, right? That engagement, surrender, vulnerability, like all the qualities. that, those.
Those needs being met is what leads to islands of security. So if it’s in the past, so we’re aiming for in the future, most importantly, we’re trying to experience that in the present moment. Like when we do, can we take a moment and capture that and be like, wow, that, that was it. They take that moment to install and say, you know, that was it. Like we, we’ve been pretty distant.
Laurie Watson, PhD (19:12.435)
Yeah, exactly.
George (19:18.209)
But we prioritize our relationship. had a date night, we went out to dinner, we had a great conversation. We went back to the bedroom and we, had fun in a way we haven’t had fun. Like that’s it.
Laurie Watson, PhD (19:27.985)
So beautiful. So beautiful. And I think these islands of security, sexually, we have to become aware of the micro ruptures and repair them quickly so that we get on track with each other again. And we have to be the safe place for our partners, sexually. It could be the safe place when they reject us. I’m not interested. I’m too tired.
We have to be safe for that. We also have to be safe when our partner maybe brings up a new creative idea. You I want to try this sexually. It’s like, OK, like, you know, we have to meet them there with some level of enthusiasm or at least acceptance of, know, this really excites you. That makes us a safe sexual partner.
George (20:14.035)
I love your introducing the misses and the opportunity in the misses because we can create this image that it’s always about the positive. know, these are some of the greatest moments of need, like when we fail and we’re really negative on ourselves and when our partner can have grace and be like, it’s no big deal. you know, I think you’re amazing anyway, like to be loved in failure or rejection. Like these are powerful islands of security.
I mean, you think about a lot of us have never, you know, we’re only love when we get it right and perform. So when we come up short and still have received loving caregiving in those places, like that’s the moment I’m always doing this with my couples. I’m like, when one partner has a need that’s the other partner is able to keep the focus and respond with caregiving. That’s the spark, like the Sistine Chapel, right? It’s like the spark of life. Those are what create these islands of security.
Laurie Watson, PhD (20:40.233)
Exactly.
George (21:07.789)
And some of the most beautiful ways of doing it is what’s Laurie’s talking about. It’s actually an omniscience. It’s actually being able to kind of receive care given in places we feel like we don’t deserve it. Like that, that, you know, what they call that the unconditional positive regard, right? That, just, it’s just so, so powerful.
Laurie Watson, PhD (21:18.501)
Exactly.
Laurie Watson, PhD (21:28.169)
Exactly. I love that. you’re right. Islands of security are created in high moments, but a low moment is another opportunity where we can be the safe landing place for our partner. It doesn’t always have to be the honeymoon experience to actually build these islands where we are secure no matter what. And I would say most of married sex life is kind of
George (21:39.501)
Exactly.
Laurie Watson, PhD (21:56.795)
scratching the edge, utilitarian, know, feeling stress relief, feeling sort of using sex as a avenue for connection, not necessarily the high vacation sex, date night sex. Would you say that?
George (22:14.189)
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, and it’s, it is about what has helped me. It’s just the term Island of security. It’s just makes me a little bit more intentional to try to focus on it. Because if those moments become clearer, we can grow them more often. I go down to gym. have a hanging up in my gym, our engagement picture, you know, we’re in our twenties and like I walked down and I look at both of us and I’m like,
Laurie Watson, PhD (22:39.625)
aww
George (22:44.087)
damn, we got older. But besides that, it’s like, what a cool moment that captures. Right. And just for a moment, I look at that picture, you know, the smile comes on my face, which is a sign of, know, that island of security. My body remembered that moment, you know, the specialness of that moment. And, you know, all these years later, I tap right back into it, right? Because that idea, that term, if we look for it more, we will find it more.
Laurie Watson, PhD (22:46.109)
the
George (23:13.291)
And if we find it more, we grow those islands of security and the world just becomes a safer, more secure.
Laurie Watson, PhD (23:21.193)
And look at what’s happening. You guys are intentional about this, right? The picture hangs there to remind both of you as you come into the gym. This is our love started way back when. You know, we’ve been together for a long time. I mean, just little things like that actually help trigger, you know, visually. yeah, we’ve been together. Look at the love there.
George (23:45.559)
She did hang it up there, so maybe it was her idea. But I wonder if she thinks about it the way I do. I should ask her that. What do you think, Laurie?
Laurie Watson, PhD (23:51.623)
Yeah, I think you should ask her about that. Exactly. Good. No. Yeah, maybe you start by saying something positive. Like, wow, I look at that and I feel our love for many years.
George (23:53.742)
Maybe it will turn into a fight, but we can redeem it if it does.
George (24:04.172)
Yeah.
George (24:07.895)
Well, it’s an interesting term to pull into the bedroom, to really like, how often do you look for islands of security and actually talk about that explicitly with your partner? You you’ve been together for decades. You’ve had plenty of experiences of creating these islands of security. But if we don’t know how to look for them or talk about them, they just kind of evaporate. It’s so much easier for our brain to focus on the misses and what’s wrong. And before you know it, that takes up the space.
You know, what we focus on is what what’s going to grow. So this is just another way of being intentional.
Laurie Watson, PhD (24:37.574)
Right.
Right. Yeah, we want to focus on some of the wins, right? The tenderness that we’ve experienced with each other or, you know, the fight that we repaired with sex or maybe the fact that we’ve ritualized, you know, sexual connection every Saturday morning before we go to coffee. That’s sex time, you know, and that’s a win.
That’s something that is intentional and I think it bridges from one island to the next. We start to grow the islands.
George (25:11.085)
Exactly. And that’s really what I want to highlight that these, they’re not just wins. They’re eternal wins, right? They’re wins that your body holds onto forever. I mean, how cool is that?
Laurie Watson, PhD (25:22.761)
Exactly. Exactly. So cool. Think about growing your islands of security. Thanks for listening.
George (25:25.901)
How cool is that?
George (25:35.917)
I’m sorry, do it again.
Laurie Watson, PhD (25:37.351)
Thanks for listening.
George (25:39.115)
Be brave, everyone.
Laurie Watson, PhD (25:41.083)
and have some great sex.
