In today’s episode, Laurie and George answer a listener’s mailbag question. We love getting these write-ins and acknowledge the courage it takes to ask for help! Our listener is a burned out or almost burned out sexual pursuer that is frustrated and saddened by their sexless marriage. Covid, menopause, adult children at home are circumstances this couple is facing and blocks for intimate connection.
George and Laurie give expert advice on how to navigate this situation, some of the physiological challenges impacting this couple and how to craft a thoughtful, caring and loving conversation to bridge the gap. Both pursuers and withdrawers will gain insight into the lives of their partners and we remember to blame the cycle to de-escalate the tension and encourage vulnerable conversation. Need help in your relationship? Send us a question on our website www.foreplayrst.com
Check out this episode’s sponsors:
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Transcript
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George Faller [00:01:37]:
The following content is not suitable for children.
Laurie Watson [00:01:39]:
Okay George, we’ve got a mailbag from a burnt out sexual pursuer. Surprise, surprise. There’s so many of us out there, but we want to help this person.
George Faller [00:01:49]:
Let’s get at it. Help is on the way.
Laurie Watson [00:01:54]:
Welcome to Foreplay sex therapy. I’m Dr. Lori Watson, your sex therapist.
George Faller [00:01:59]:
I’m George Fowler, your couples therapist.
Laurie Watson [00:02:01]:
We are here to talk about sex.
George Faller [00:02:03]:
Our mission is to help couples talk about sex in ways that incorporate their body, their mind and their hearts.
Laurie Watson [00:02:11]:
And we have a little bit of fun doing it right G listen and.
George Faller [00:02:15]:
Let’S change some relationships. Well, before we get into that, Laurie, just a reminder. We have a training in Nashville in person for therapists to really kind of get your game on. Go deep in the sexual cycle. January 23rd to 25th it’s again, it’s going to push push the field of sexuality and therapy forward so be part of a team.
Laurie Watson [00:02:37]:
Yeah, we’ve got two days of lecture and exercises and then we’re going to do a third day where you bring your issues and we’re going to help you figure out where you get stuck.
George Faller [00:02:49]:
Yeah, there’s always such great rich trainings when you’re not presenting. You’re just kind of winging with what people are coming your way and a lot of times you might not have the answers and that’s how you get clearer and it’s just really such a great training.
Laurie Watson [00:03:02]:
And I think we need to offer a discount for everybody bringing videos on the sexual cycle. If you got a video that you can share with us and permission, that would be great. We will think about giving you a little discount there so that we can all learn.
George Faller [00:03:17]:
All learned. Speaking of all learning, let’s get back to this sexual burnt out pursuit.
Laurie Watson [00:03:25]:
So you know, I really feel for this person. We get a lot of these letters from sexual pursuers who are so exhausted and tired. But he says, you know, I appreciate your work to assist in sexual relationships. I have yet to see positive results in mine personally, but still have hope. Pursuers always have hope. Haha. I’m 59. My wife will soon be 54.
Laurie Watson [00:03:49]:
We’ve got kids in college and kids at home. We both work and she’s gone through menopause in her mid-40s, which is pretty early. Just for the record, basically we’ve been sexless since she was in menopause and there’s been a few times but not sure we’ve had sex since. COVID Your recent podcast, more about the cycle and having the goal against the cycle has yet to take hold with her. I don’t want to get ahead of this podcast series, but I’m not seeing an end game to increased intimate relations for us. She still says she has has zero sex drive, too stressed and doesn’t like her body changes. I have nothing but positive things to say to her. I believe she thinks I’m just saying nice things to get sex.
Laurie Watson [00:04:37]:
She has never been too adventurous and I would like a little enthusiasm toward our intimate relationship. They’ve tried counseling, not much help. I guess I’m asking am I being compassionate toward her withdrawing cycle and then other than making her feel heard, it’s not produced any change help. So you know, you can feel his energy. He also goes through and makes some suggestions which as pursuers, buddy, we got lots of suggestions.
George Faller [00:05:11]:
I feel lots of suggestions.
Laurie Watson [00:05:13]:
Lots of suggestions.
George Faller [00:05:14]:
Let me backtrack a second here, Laura, because I, I do want to appreciate him and invite all our listeners. Like, it’s a great way for us to have more of a relationship. Right. When we get these emails and we have an exchange and you know, it really feels more connecting. Like we don’t just speak into a computer when we have this engagement. And it’s a risk, right? It’s a risk to kind of put your relationship out there and to reach out for help or to give us feedback. And we just want to acknowledge that it’s so important to what we’re doing here.
Laurie Watson [00:05:43]:
It is. And you know, we appreciate the specific feedback, the specific questions. It helps guide our work. So please write in and we will use this.
George Faller [00:05:55]:
And it’s always great to get in those emails where it works. People’s lives are improved and people decide they want to become patrons and they want to support, you know, this message getting out there. And it just, you know, that ripple effect is just, it’s exciting to be part of.
Laurie Watson [00:06:10]:
Yeah. Thank you. And again, thank you patrons for your support. So I want to kind of help him. You know, they’re at an age, right, where his wife is through menopause. They still have children, probably older children at home, which I would say for many couples is a really tough stage because their kids are up all hours of the night. And if you’re a sexual withdrawer and you need privacy and you worry about the kids listening or knowing, right, oh, mom and dad went to bed, what does that mean? Because they’re probably at the age where they’re becoming sexual themselves or having sexual feelings, it can be a little awkward and. But I know this guy is going to say, yeah, one more thing, one more strike, right.
George Faller [00:06:59]:
Well, it’s one thing to have obstacles, it’s another thing to not have sex since COVID So, you know, this is considered a sexless couple. Right. And that’s an issue. And for pursuers, what we call a burnt out pursuers, when they, they keep trying and they keep hoping that things are going to change and when they don’t change over time, they start to get discouraged, they start to give up. So he still has hope. He’s still listening. He’s not there yet, but he’s heading in that direction.
Laurie Watson [00:07:26]:
Right.
George Faller [00:07:26]:
The window is starting to close. You know, the more he hopes. Hope is risky when you don’t get those hopes met. Right. And then you start to feel frustrated and resentful and you just get lost in that negativity. And you know, this is where he dash really needs our help. Right?
Laurie Watson [00:07:43]:
Yeah. And to that end, he does say at the end, I am not in a good space. This is too long without physical intimacy. I could keep going but maybe it’s been too much already. So.
George Faller [00:07:55]:
Yeah.
Laurie Watson [00:07:55]:
Oh, and he thanks us too. Thanks for all you do with your content. Love the chemistry the two of you have. Aw, that’s nice.
George Faller [00:08:02]:
Nice. Well, it’s we timing of this, our last episode, we talked about the mission and it sounds like he’s trying to do that. He’s trying to give the withdrawer the space to re engage and it seems like she’s having some success. This emotional awareness, the pressure, like some things are shifting a little bit, but it’s not leading to what he needs. Right. And again, so now his own stuff is being triggered and brought up.
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George Faller [00:09:42]:
All.
Laurie Watson [00:09:43]:
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Laurie Watson [00:10:02]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, couple years since COVID if you’re not having any sex at all, I mean, I can just imagine how angry I would feel, how hopeless I would feel. You know, just. Oh, that is really rough.
George Faller [00:10:21]:
Yeah. So if he’s getting stuck in that yellow or red chronically, and he still has the resilience to listen to podcasts and keep hope, and it shows, you know, what a. What a. What an amazing man and his love for his partner is that he can persevere still in the. In this dry kind of desert for a long period of time.
Laurie Watson [00:10:41]:
Right. I was talking with a male sexual pursuer who had been burned out and one of his strategies recently. I was talking to him, and he said, you know, I. I’ve basically given up initiating. I don’t like to be rejected. I also really don’t actually want to have pressured sex. That kind of sexual quality, where she does it just to make me happy, is not. Not what I’m looking for.
Laurie Watson [00:11:08]:
And I. And I got that. But by the end of our time together, I was able to say, though, you know, you have gobs of testosterone. A menopausal woman is. Has none. You know, basically none. And so that testosterone is the part of us that pushes our body physiologically to hunger for sex. So if we take his initiation out of the system, it’s like, there’s no gas in the car.
Laurie Watson [00:11:35]:
You know, we need a little bit of fuel. So I was able to kind of help him risk again. And, you know, for many good reasons, sexual pursuers want to stop risking and protect themselves. I get that. But if you’ve still got testosterone and you’ve got drive and you’re with a partner who doesn’t. Not initiating is usually not a good strategy.
George Faller [00:11:57]:
No, that makes sense. But it leads you to more resentment and frustration.
Laurie Watson [00:12:02]:
Yeah.
George Faller [00:12:03]:
Because you just take it off the table. So I. I’d want to start off by saying, you know, this couple’s truly not de. Escalated because there isn’t a safety for the withdrawal to continue to reengage when the pursuer’s unmet needs are just not being addressed. Right. So there is. There is a reason for his protest. I think there’s something healthy about that.
George Faller [00:12:25]:
That would be nice if she could acknowledge, like, how hard it is if your primary feeling safe in a world is through touching, you can’t get it. And you do all the work in a relationship and you don’t get the payoff. Like, you run out of gas when that’s the setup. And, like, can we blame the cycle for that? Can. Can his partner say to him, hey, I get how frustrating this is. Like, you’re running out of Gas and that, you know, it’s not that you want to be angry. It’s like this is where you set up. Like, so I don’t know if that has happened already.
George Faller [00:12:53]:
Like, is. Is his partner just focus on her and, you know, what’s going on in her world or can she make the mission him and some of his frustration? Because he deserves that.
Laurie Watson [00:13:04]:
He does. And I mean, I think the good news is it sounds like she’s listening. You know, maybe it hasn’t made the impact that he wants it to make for her, but she is listening. So I guess what you’re saying is they’re not yet deescalated. They’re not in a safe place with each other. But if she could listen to anything and say anything, it would be just acknowledging that the anger he feels over when his need is so powerful for sex and it’s not happening. Yeah, I mean, if you are absolutely not getting your needs met, you’re going to be pretty angry.
George Faller [00:13:42]:
Withdrawers sometimes have to see the value of shift in the mission. The mission can’t just be about them understanding their world and what they need to do differently. Sometimes they have to stop that mission and say, and what’s it like for my partner? They are the mission. Right. He needs some kind of support for his struggle. Right. And I think that I would want to see if, if he feels like his, his partner can give him that shift the mission here. And that’s also true with couples.
George Faller [00:14:09]:
Like when we’re doing couples therapy, when we’re doing withdrawal re engagement and that pursuer is just can’t keep the focus on the withdrawer because a lot of times they’re running on empty. Sometimes we have to shift a mission to fill up that pursuer a little bit, resource them so they can settle to then give the space that’s needed for the withdrawal. But if that withdrawal is taking up all the space and the pursuer is not getting anything in return, that, you know, you can only stay in that space for so long before the, you know, the protests start happening.
Laurie Watson [00:14:42]:
Right. And he also tried therapy to maybe get a little filling. He tried a credentialed sexual therapist. I don’t know what that means. I will tell you that many sex therapists out there are not trained in the cycle aspect of sexual relations. So maybe search out an EFT sex therapist or an EFT couples therapist who has a sense of the sexual cycle and what’s happening there. That might be a very different experience for him. He might feel a lot more supported.
George Faller [00:15:18]:
Yeah, well, let’s come back and roleplay it.
Laurie Watson [00:15:20]:
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George Faller [00:17:42]:
All right, so again, we’re just going to play with this. And all our role plays are just an attempt to kind of. There’s a difference between giving you ideas and concepts and coaching and teaching and actually demonstrating and Doing it, because this is a lot harder to do than it is to actually listen to. So it’s our way of kind of walking in all your worlds and trying to kind of be you. So we’re going to. We’re going to do this with the mailbag where you’re going to just, you know, I’ll play the part of the husband, and I’m going to just try to make some space for this part of me that feels like it’s not being given enough attention.
Laurie Watson [00:18:17]:
Okay. And I think we should be Sam and Beth, because it’s a whole nother couple.
George Faller [00:18:21]:
Yeah. With Sam.
Laurie Watson [00:18:22]:
Sam played again.
George Faller [00:18:25]:
I like Sam. All right, so we’ve done some work. We’ve listened to a bunch of podcasts. I know it’s important to frame this. I’m trying to kind of get Beth to hear my message, so I’m going to try to set it up that way and then make space for me being the mission. So. So, Beth, I really hope we could, you know, find a couple minutes to talk about something. Is now a good time, or would you rather do this some other time?
Laurie Watson [00:18:54]:
I think now is as good a time as ever if we’re going to talk about sex again, Sam. I mean, this is. This is our thing.
George Faller [00:19:03]:
I know we try to talk about it a lot, and. And I do want to acknowledge that. I know that you’ve been kind of addressing this from new angles in ways you’ve never done before. Right. And you’ve listened to things and you’ve been curious about yourself, and kind of some of the things are getting in the way, and I think that’s been super helpful. Right. So, again, I just want to acknowledge that I don’t think it’s like old conversations where you kind of weren’t doing much, and I was frustrated, and we had those conversations for so many years, and I see how it just. We both lost in those conversations.
George Faller [00:19:37]:
It’s not what I want to do at all.
Laurie Watson [00:19:41]:
Okay, thank you. I don’t want to go through what we’ve been through before, either. So I know I don’t exactly know how to fix this stuff, but I certainly recognize what we’ve been listening to about the cycle and that there’s a push, pull, and pursue, withdraw. And I know I’m the withdrawer, so. Yeah, okay. I.
George Faller [00:20:08]:
Well, I. I know I’m the one that pushes all the time, and I’ve really been working on not pushing, and I think that’s been working. Like, you’ve been engaging in ways that you typically haven’t So I do feel like things are shifting a bit, and that makes me hopeful and, you know, so I don’t want to blow that and mess that up. I just feel like so often recently the mission has been you and kind of trying to understand what’s going on with you, and you deserve that, and you’re trying to kind of find yourself, and I think that’s great. But I. I really was hoping that we can shift the mission just to kind of acknowledge what it’s like on my end, you know, because a lot of times there’s not a lot of focus. I feel like at. I’m on pause until we know what’s going on over here, and.
George Faller [00:20:57]:
And that’s just hard. And I was hoping you could just kind of focus on me for a while. I’ve been trying to focus on you for a while.
Laurie Watson [00:21:06]:
Okay. I. Try to not blow this conversation, too. Yes, I have noticed that you’re kind of pulling back. I do feel a little more breathing space, I guess. I. I want to focus on you. It’s.
Laurie Watson [00:21:28]:
It’s hard because sometimes I look at. If I focus on you, all I see is this big ball of anger with me, and. And I don’t like to look at that, you know, because it makes upsets me.
George Faller [00:21:43]:
And I appreciate that. I appreciate that.
Laurie Watson [00:21:46]:
Yeah, I do. See, yeah. Sex is important. We’re not having sex. It’s got to be painful. It’s got to be meaningful.
George Faller [00:21:54]:
I. I get how not facing it is what you do to feel safe. I really have taken that less personal. It’s not like you don’t want to talk to me or you’re trying to reject me. You just don’t feel safe. And again, so many things that we’ve been doing has been helpful. I really was hoping, like, that last podcast, we listened to it, like the green, yellow and red. I’m just hoping that I could have some green bring green brain with my wife where she can just be curious about my world, because I often feel like I’m alone with this.
George Faller [00:22:21]:
And that’s really all I’m hoping for, like, I can. That you get me a little bit more. I’m not doing this to beat you up. I’m not trying to criticize you. I don’t want to make you backslide or kind of go back to your old moves. I just really. And if you’re not in a space where you could do that, that’s fine. I just.
George Faller [00:22:35]:
I just really want you to get me in this space.
Laurie Watson [00:22:38]:
Okay. I want to be Able to get you. I’m not sure what I do, though. I don’t know what that looks like. So that you feel like I get you.
George Faller [00:22:49]:
I think just to get your curiosity to want to know what my world is like, instead of feeling bad about yourself that you’re causing it to just kind of walk in my shoes and try to kind of get what it’s like for me.
Laurie Watson [00:23:01]:
Okay, I’ll try to do that. What. What is your world like?
George Faller [00:23:07]:
So pause. That shift towards curiosity is so important. I can feel that shift inside of you. Right. And we’re really needing that as a pursuer to continue this conversation. If you don’t get it, if they’re doing it out of obligation or guilt, you’re not really going to get. Move the needle on this one.
Laurie Watson [00:23:27]:
Yeah. And I think that in this conversation, you’ve been really good about leading it to this place. You know, you’ve stayed non angry. She’s been a little apprehensive, but you’ve kind of coached her into this place of, but this is what I need from you. And so she’s able to ask, you know, I would say if I were a sexual withdrawer, asking that question, you know, what is your world like? I’m ready for dark, upset, you know, frustrated, depressed, you know, and I’m bracing for that. It’s like, it’s hard. This is a really hard.
George Faller [00:24:05]:
Bracing is what makes it go yellow, right?
Laurie Watson [00:24:09]:
Yeah. Yeah.
George Faller [00:24:10]:
We just want you to prepare for that. This is a hard conversation for good reasons, but the more that you could just honor that part of yourself and try to put it aside, say it’s not the right time for this. I just want to walk in my partner’s shoes. We have a better chance of accomplishing that.
Laurie Watson [00:24:23]:
Yeah. Okay.
George Faller [00:24:24]:
All right.
Laurie Watson [00:24:26]:
Okay.
George Faller [00:24:26]:
So thank you. You know, I. I think it’s the struggle I have between hope and hopelessness that it’s like, hope that I know you love me. We built this great life, and I love you. And like, when I start to hear different perspectives and people breaking things down and cycle talk, like, my heart starts to leap a little bit. Like, wait a second. We. There’s a way out of this.
George Faller [00:24:54]:
And I get really hopeful and. And then you start doing your work, and I’m doing my work, and we know our cycle and we’re trying to do it differently, and I’m like, this is going to work. So I have that really hopeful side of me, you know, and then when the needle doesn’t move in the area that, you know, touches how I feel safe in the world. It’s how I feel connected. It’s how I let go of stresses of the world. It’s just like. I don’t know, it’s. It’s the one place that grounds me.
George Faller [00:25:25]:
It just reminds me of my value and I’m lovable last like this. It means so much. And I know that puts pressure on you and you’re working on that, and I appreciate that. But when, like, my heart gets hopeful and it wants something and then I don’t get it. Sometimes the crash is even greater than if I just don’t care and have low expectations and I just do my own thing. And I know I. I feel like I’m angry all the time, but there’s safety in that, right? And sometimes when I put that aside and I’m like, I try to hope again, it just feels like the crash is just a bit bigger.
Laurie Watson [00:26:02]:
Well, that was not as bad as I thought it was going to be. I. I really. I feel good that you do know I love you and you do see that we’ve built a good thing. That. That’s really good that you reminded me, you know that. And. Yeah, I can.
Laurie Watson [00:26:24]:
I can imagine. You know, you do do a lot of work. You do all the research, you figure out the podcast we’re supposed to listen to, and then when it, like, you know, it doesn’t change fast enough, I can imagine that crash, like, o. You. You hoped for it, and then it doesn’t really seem to actualize. So you’re like, you know, did I do all this work for nothing? And your hope kind of gets dashed. Yeah, I see that.
George Faller [00:26:51]:
And.
Laurie Watson [00:26:51]:
And I do know that, you know, you are working for us to be better. That’s a lot of work that you do. Sometimes, you know, I. I get lost in my own stuff. But I. I do see that you are overall trying to work for us. So I. Yeah, I’m sorry that you go into that feel, that hopeless place.
Laurie Watson [00:27:15]:
I. I can’t feel.
George Faller [00:27:18]:
Yeah, no, thank you. It feels like, you know, it’s like, go to this place. But what feels the worst is like, I have no options when I’m in that place because, like, normally what I would do is I would complain about it. And I know that makes it worse for you, so I don’t want to complain about it. But then I get mad at myself that I’m like, how am I still in this place? Like, I have all this protest inside of me and I don’t know what to do with it because it’s So I just try to stuff it. I just try to swallow it. I just try to distract myself. I just try all these ways of coping with this, and I don’t know.
George Faller [00:27:53]:
I just. That’s why I wanted to talk about it. I just think if every once in a while, if I could just have an outlet where I can. Like, I’m not crazy. Like, it’s okay to get frustrated with this stuff when it’s not changing. Like, I’m not trying to beat you up. I’m not trying to send you backwards. I just want somebody say, it’s okay to be frustrated.
Laurie Watson [00:28:09]:
It’s okay to be frustrated. This has been a frustrating place for us. I. I imagine you’re very frustrated, and I think. I think it’s better for me to hear about you being frustrated in the process and all that frantic place. It feels a little bit different than you being frustrated at me. So I appreciate the way you’re saying it.
George Faller [00:28:34]:
And it feels like I’m getting a little clearer. It’s like I just. Every once in a while, if things are not changing, we’re not where we want to be yet, and that’s fine. That’s the process. I get that. I just think if every once in a while, you can circle back and say, hey, I know you probably need to talk about this. Like. Like, just to give me an outlet to talk about this.
George Faller [00:28:54]:
I’m not bad, because I want to talk about this. I don’t want to beat my wife up. I just. I just. I want to do something with all this kind of helpless feeling that I get inside of me.
Laurie Watson [00:29:05]:
Yeah.
George Faller [00:29:06]:
So thank you. It feels like you’re. You’re kind of giving me that now.
Laurie Watson [00:29:10]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think I can take this every once in a while. Okay.
George Faller [00:29:17]:
Well, it feels like I’m not crazy, that now I don’t have to beat you up or me up, at least. Like, we’re both in this together, you know? It sucks. I know it sucks. And we don’t have the answers yet, and that’s okay. But I. I feel less alone.
Laurie Watson [00:29:30]:
Okay. I’m glad I could be there. Glad I could. Listen, it doesn’t feel like we’re doing the same thing, so thank you.
George Faller [00:29:40]:
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Laurie Watson [00:29:42]:
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George Faller [00:29:43]:
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George Faller [00:29:54]:
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Laurie Watson [00:29:56]:
This episode is brought to you by. Oops. I’ve got a box of Cheez It Crackers staring at me, and I just wanted that irresistible Cheesy Crunch. Sorry, that was a total snackcident. Mmm. What was I supposed to be talking about? So salty.
George Faller [00:30:11]:
So crunchy.
Laurie Watson [00:30:13]:
So cheesy. Whoops. Lost my train of thought. I’ve heard of brain freeze, but brain cheese? I’ll just have one more cheese at cracker, and then I’ll get back to it. Okay.
George Faller [00:30:27]:
It wasn’t so bad.
Laurie Watson [00:30:29]:
I. I will say, though, that, like, toward the end, it was, like, getting a little long there, you know, just listening to all that. It was. It was hard. It was like, okay, okay, it’s getting.
George Faller [00:30:38]:
A little long in five minutes. And I spend, you know, 500 hours in this.
Laurie Watson [00:30:44]:
I know, right?
George Faller [00:30:46]:
And again, these withdrawals listen, and they, you know, it’s great you’re doing your work to figure out your own brakes and gas pedals and all that, but you also got to take some time every once in a while to say, hey, I gotta resource my partner. My partner’s running on empty, and they. They need some attention, right? And they. I need to be able to kind of walk in their shoes and let them know they’re not crazy and this struggle is real. And I like. It’s amazing what that will do to kind of just fill up that pursuer a little bit.
Laurie Watson [00:31:13]:
Yeah, exactly. Well, we hope that we have been sympathetic enough to you because we know, you know, we’re all often asking the pursuer to wait, keep the focus on the withdrawer and all that. And we just hope that, Ryder, you feel our sympathy, our empathy, and we hope that you and your partner have a similar conversation and that she can hear you for five minutes.
George Faller [00:31:39]:
Yeah. All right, well, thanks for risking.
Laurie Watson [00:31:44]:
Keep it hot. So some of you are interested in our work. We want to tell you where we.
George Faller [00:31:49]:
Are, what we’re doing in January 23rd to 25th, we’re coming to Nashville in person to do three days of really kind of breaking down this process. And again, I think this should be mandatory for all therapists to just kind of have more confidence in knowing what to do and work with the sexual cycle.
Laurie Watson [00:32:06]:
Yeah, we’ve already had lots of signups for that. By the way, George, people are also taking advantage of that early bird special. You know, we want supervisors to come. We’re giving half off to the supervisors. So please join us so that we can kind of get on the same page and understand and develop eft further. There’s going to be two days of lecture and exercises and then a day maybe with a live and, you know, working on your tapes and your stuck places and we’re going to go down to the honky Tonk and have dinner together and have some fun.
George Faller [00:32:39]:
Have some fun.
Laurie Watson [00:32:40]:
Have some fun. Yeehaw.
George Faller [00:32:42]:
Yeehaw. And for all you listeners, again, if, if you have a community and you want Laura and I to come out and give a specialized training on sex, and again, I think this is so important for anybody seeing couples, then, you know, reach out to us and let’s continue to spread this message. Yeehaw. Call in your questions to the four play question voicemail dial 833 My4Play. That’s 833 My the number four play. And we’ll use the questions for our mailbag episodes all content is for entertainment purposes only and should not be considered as a substitute for therapy by a licensed clinician or as medical advice from a doctor. This podcast is copyrighted by Foreplay Media.
Laurie Watson [00:33:22]:
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