In today’s episode, Laurie and George discuss how improving caretaking in your relationship can lead to better sex. If you’ve felt bogged down by the mental load or have heard your partner make complaints about it this is a must listen episode.
Join us as we guide you through ‘four ways to be a better caregiver.’ Learn how recognizing your partner’s needs, taking action before asking, and making the little things important will increase and improve your sexual connection.
Make sure to check out our NEW website www.bravelovegreatsex.com for updates on our upcoming book release and other ways you can support your relationship. We’re on a mission to help our brave lovers have great sex!
Check out this episode’s sponsor (and help the pod!):
Uberlube.com — Laurie’s long-time favorite personal lubricant!
Transcript
George (03:03.19)
We all need care given. And we talk a lot about it in moments of struggle, but what about everyday life, Laurie, the practicalities.
Laurie Watson, PhD (03:13.122)
Wait one second. I’m not ready. Sorry.
George (03:18.05)
Guess that’s not too practical.
George (03:40.578)
How are you doing with the rest of the book? We can talk about it after.
Laurie Watson, PhD (03:43.306)
I am, yeah, I’m not very far. I’m really, really busy. It’s just like drowning. So I hope to get done this weekend. We have an ice storm coming, so maybe I’ll be locked in and not be able to do anything else. You know what? I can’t see you. Is there any way you can move a little bit more? Yeah.
George (03:58.35)
It’s crazy, ain’t over a foot.
Laurie Watson, PhD (04:08.78)
That way, just because when we’re recording these, now we’re using them. Yeah, better. Good job.
George (04:18.547)
still I don’t see me is that in the middle or it’s like a little scoop
Laurie Watson, PhD (04:22.124)
You’re in the middle now. You can’t see you? Can you see me?
George (04:25.749)
Now I see you, you’re in a big screen. I’m in this little narrow screen.
Laurie Watson, PhD (04:35.534)
I have a side by side which doesn’t really make that much sense.
George (04:40.301)
but I’m right now in a bigger, in the middle.
Laurie Watson, PhD (04:45.57)
You’re in the middle of the screen that I see you in. Okay.
George (04:52.269)
All right, so you want me to bring us in? We’re ready?
Laurie Watson, PhD (04:55.074)
Yeah, go ahead.
George (04:59.809)
We all need care given. We talk about it so much in hardships and struggle. But what about everyday life, Lori, the practical?
Laurie Watson, PhD (05:07.906)
Yeah, like, why don’t you see the toys that need to be picked up, George?
George (05:12.685)
Here we go.
Laurie Watson, PhD (05:15.742)
First of all, we just want to thank our patrons for supporting us. You can find us on our new website, bravelovegreatsex.com, and representing our new book, Brave Love Great Sex, that’s coming out in September. So hang with us. We’ll let you know when it’s time to buy it to help us get on the bestseller list. And we hope to deliver this to you that it will give you
George (05:25.835)
Yee-haw!
Laurie Watson, PhD (05:44.864)
visual learners a way to kind of organize your thinking about your lives.
George (05:50.703)
It’s exciting times and all these years of podcasting and gathering ideas to kind of see them come to some kind of physical manifestation. Kind of fun. You know, like all books, there’s always more you could have said, all these other things, but I think it’s a really good attempt at getting some great information out there.
Laurie Watson, PhD (06:01.662)
Absolutely.
Laurie Watson, PhD (06:09.198)
For sure, for sure. So back to caretaking. This is a place, George, that I hear so many people get stuck in, and it seems to really impact the sexual cycle. You know, like when a person doesn’t feel supported in their daily life, either in big ways or even the chronic little misses that happen, it kind of builds this resentment, this sense of I’m not important to my partner, and it limits the way people respond.
George (06:22.158)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (06:39.286)
sexually.
George (06:41.494)
Yeah, I mixed feelings. I’m just laughing. I mean, we hear so many comments around just help out more around, you know, and there was some study that the more dishes and stuff you did, it was actually less sex. So it’s I think there’s some confusing messages out there, but I I totally I think this is a super important topic, right? That these little things that seem like annoying are actually super important when you represent.
Laurie Watson, PhD (06:44.234)
I know. Good.
Laurie Watson, PhD (06:54.638)
George (07:08.428)
when you understand emotionally kind of the places they speak to.
Laurie Watson, PhD (07:12.022)
I will say we had a listener, a faithful listener who writes me frequently who said that his partner had been asking for support for many, years. And he finally, kind of after listening to us, started to listen carefully to her. And he said, you know,
I just started doing what she asked. He said, it didn’t take very long at all. It wasn’t that big of a deal. I just started doing what she asked. And he goes, my life is transformed. She’s initiating sex. It’s now been months. And he wrote me another letter and he said, Laurie, I have a new relationship. All I’ve done is listen to my wife and done what she’s asked. And she’s so responsive to me sexually. He goes, in fact, I’ve decided to stop listening to your podcast, which wasn’t the best news. But he said, you know, I’ve
I feel like if I hyper focus on this, then I’m going to miss the big picture in my marriage. And so I’m just responding to my wife. She’s suddenly not only responsive sexually, but really getting me. And I’m like, you’ve graduated. You don’t even need us anymore. This is great news.
George (08:21.006)
I would say, listen, this podcast is a lot more than just talking about problems. When you graduate, you got to learn how to celebrate and install the positive. They’re just, you know, we’re all continuous learners. You graduate, you just keep on going. So I don’t know. think he’s going to miss out on some things if he stops listening.
Laurie Watson, PhD (08:31.502)
Listen to George. I know, but I was so pleased. You know, I was so pleased that he got the message. He listened. And for him, the conflict was, yeah.
George (08:41.602)
That is cool.
George (08:47.822)
Well, let’s make that message. Let’s, let’s make that, let’s make that message explicit. What did he get? What was she asking for? think that’s a lot of men, especially find it hard. Like it sounds like nagging like, yeah, I can do the garbage later. Like they don’t understand maybe some of, of what this guy you’re saying started to understand.
Laurie Watson, PhD (09:11.326)
Exactly. You know, I think there’s a lot of buzz and talk and articles about the unseen mental load that women carry. You know, it’s like they’re remembering, I got to make the pediatrician appointments. I’ve got to even make my partner’s dentist appointments. I’ve got to plan Christmas. You know, I’m buying gifts all year. I’m so I’m
you know, doing it economically, hunting for sales. I mean, there’s just so much, I think, that sometimes one partner carries and the other partner doesn’t. And I think, I remember when I was young, my husband probably at that point was more the breadwinner and was busier. And I was starting my practice and we hired a woman.
to come in and help me on the weekends when my husband was traveling at that time.
And what I remember was she didn’t stop until everything was done for the afternoon and evening. The kids were bathed, they were put in bed, the playroom was straight, the dishes were done, the food was put away, everything was done. And she didn’t consider her job over until that happened. And I was tired too, and I know my husband was tired, and sometimes it’s like, let’s just leave the dishes till the morning.
But the next day would always start just like behind because we wouldn’t finish the job. I just remember thinking, she’s better than a husband. No sex, but she’s better than a husband because she takes on the mental load. She remembered what it would be like in the morning for us if we were starting the day without being set.
George (11:05.102)
think that was some of the popularity of that show with whatever the Sister Wives. My wife, I remember watching that. I was like, why are you watching this show? But there’s something about somebody getting your daily stress and being in it with you and carrying that mental load. Like, there’s something really important about that.
Laurie Watson, PhD (11:10.222)
Ha ha ha.
Laurie Watson, PhD (11:22.818)
I totally agree. was fascinated by that too. I think sometimes write the fantasy of having somebody who does all the things that you maybe don’t want to do or aren’t good at. There’s something to that. I want to be the wife though that gets all the sex. Can I be that wife? I’ll take care of all those needs.
George (11:40.194)
Yeah.
George (11:45.023)
I mean, hey, we grew up for thousands of years in villages, right, where these things communally were happening, right? Women were raising and sharing load and doing it all together. And I think that’s some of the message here that don’t get so lost in the practicality. It’s really about the load, the pressure that people are carrying. And when you can contribute and help out and take some of those things off the list, like that really physiology.
does a big difference.
Laurie Watson, PhD (12:15.446)
Right, exactly. And I think to me, one way to think about it is just to examine your lives and say, and I know that, you know, I don’t think it’s just women who feel mental load. think there are sometimes I’ve heard complaints from men who say, you know, I carry the financial load. You know, my partner doesn’t work as much or work at all. I have all this stress financially. I want help here and I want.
George (12:39.138)
Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (12:44.012)
I want my partner to kind of think with me about what I’m carrying as well. So I don’t think it’s simply women, but if one… Go ahead.
George (12:53.612)
Yeah, let me just speak to it. know just because again, sometimes for simplicity and to generalize and to make a quick point in a couple of minutes in a podcast, there are plenty of men in heterosexual relationships who are the ones carrying the mental load. We can switch roles, in gay relationship, these types. There’s usually one partner who carries more of a mental load than the other. And that’s really what we’re trying to speak to. The partner who’s not, who might hear it as…
Laurie Watson, PhD (13:03.254)
Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (13:09.965)
There is.
George (13:21.698)
you know, criticism and nagging. Like we have this conversation all the time around Christmas. Like, I don’t think my wife should carry as much of a mental load. It’s not like she, I think there is something to learn. That’s another podcast for people that can let go of things and not edit to that mental load. But really the mission in this podcast is saying, if somebody is carrying a mental load, how can you give them care given around practical things that really make a huge emotional difference?
Laurie Watson, PhD (13:36.044)
Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (13:42.934)
Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (13:48.342)
And I just think, yes, it’s true that sometimes one person over caretakes or care gives. But when we turn that around in the sexual realm and we say, OK, I think you do too much around the house. And maybe they turn around and say, OK, you’re saying also, though, I do too little sexually.
you know, like would we be able to say as sexual pursuers, you know, I want my partner to step up in the sexual realm and carry as much mental load around it as I do and.
Isn’t it just the same strategy to say, like, I think you worry too much about it when the, you know, like when you’re thinking about your wife worrying too much about Christmas, doing too much. If she says, well, I think you worry too much about sex and that it has to be so special and fabulous and creative. It’s like, know, and it doesn’t matter to me as much. So why should I worry about it?
George (14:51.904)
I like.
Yeah, but.
I like using the mental load in both outside and inside the bedroom. We don’t tend to use that, that the sexual pursuer is carrying the mental load sexually. They’re the ones with the burden of bringing it up, thinking about it, pushing for it. Like they are carrying that load. How do we help them, you know, with, and does the practicality help them? That’s, that might be another podcast, but you know, it’s another podcast. liked, I liked the term. I liked the term mental load.
Laurie Watson, PhD (15:12.65)
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Laurie Watson, PhD (15:20.652)
It’s another podcast. Let’s stay with the caregiving cycle.
George (15:26.87)
in the bedroom, this is not one I think we use.
Laurie Watson, PhD (15:27.159)
Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (15:30.476)
Yeah, I totally agree. But I think that the strategy that I’ve heard, this is the withdraw person and partner in the caregiving cycle frequently says, just don’t care as much. The house doesn’t have to be that clean. I could eat a TV dinner. What’s the big deal? And so it’s a strategy in my mind to go ahead.
George (15:52.333)
care.
My, my, my, my, my line to Kathy is always, which is order pizza. Come on, just order pizza. Why are we doing all this crazy stuff? Right. Which is again, she’s carrying a mental load of all this. wants to make something special. You have people coming over, you got all of this work and it lands to me as what do you have to do it? Which just doesn’t help with the mental load. It actually adds more frustration to it.
Laurie Watson, PhD (16:04.878)
Right.
George (16:23.404)
And then that frustration starts to spill out in other areas.
Laurie Watson, PhD (16:23.694)
Sure.
Well, this is what I think we’ve been talking about in the caregiving cycle, right, George? Let’s come back with this little nugget, right after the break.
George (16:39.726)
ready for a nugget.
Laurie Watson, PhD (16:41.742)
Okay, so I think the nugget is in the caregiving cycle, we make important what is important to our partners. Right? mean, that’s when we don’t have to feel the exact same, but we recognize that our partner feels something is important. And so it becomes a priority in our hearts, whether it’s
The way they want to prepare for Christmas, the way they want to be creative in bed, the way they need time set aside to talk and share feelings. We go, you know, I don’t need that so much, right? I had one guy who said, I don’t need to debrief the day. I don’t even like to debrief the day. In fact, my partner’s boring. I don’t want to know about their talk with their girlfriends and how the house was decorated and the shops they went to. I’m bored. It’s like, OK.
And you’re not getting sex for sure, you know, because you’re saying my partner’s needs to talk and share are unimportant. And I think the same sort of thing. Like when I don’t care about your life or your values or anything, and I say, yeah, it’s no big deal. That’s not caregiving. Caregiving is saying you think it’s important. I got to find value in it. I got to listen to you. I mean, isn’t that the answer?
George (18:09.356)
Yeah, I love it really is so symbolic of love. Like don’t get lost in the practical.
Action it’s what it represents is what you’re talking about. Like I don’t care about the dishes I can do it tomorrow, but if that represents to my wife that hey This matters to me and this is your way of helping me and those dishes are a big deal because it shows me you love me You’re willing to cut tolerate some discomfort because you want to help me you’re putting your needs my needs before you know before your needs
Laurie Watson, PhD (18:21.313)
Exactly.
George (18:41.326)
Right. Which is what love is asking for. That is what care given is willing to do. I’m focused on you and I want to meet your needs. So, you know, I love how you’re trying to kind of stretch this. We can say this in vulnerability. Like I feel like I’m failing. I feel rejected and our partner wants to have these conversations. And in a way that’s almost easier because it’s like a direct call that can you tell me I matter, but you’re saying these little things it’s hitting that same place.
Laurie Watson, PhD (19:06.19)
It does.
George (19:06.786)
Right. And a lot of times there’s not words attached to it. That’s why symbolically, that’s so important to make that transition and say, Hey, that request, that sounds like a nag to just do this silly action actually is a doorway into kind of putting your partner’s needs first, which is, there anything more important than that?
Laurie Watson, PhD (19:24.66)
It is, that’s exactly the point. And many times I work with clients who have the capacity to manage life, but they don’t apply it in their home life. For instance, you know, I remember one person was saying, you know, I don’t do gifts well.
You know, I forget my wife’s birthday. I forget the anniversary. know, Christmas is always last minute. You know, and this was kind of a high powered exec. I’m like, how do you keep track of your client’s needs? Because he had to kind of woo his clients. So he’s like, well, when I’m talking to them, I take little notes. I remember their children’s birthdays, what their children’s sports.
George (20:03.5)
Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (20:12.108)
were, I get them hockey tickets, because I know as a family they’re into hockey. I’m like, how do you do that? And he goes, I keep a little notepad on all my clients. I’m like, wow. Like, he already had a system. He already had a system. But he didn’t apply it on his own calendar for his wife for the anniversary birthday. I mean, it’s just like, yeah, I get it that this is kind of different.
George (20:24.206)
So you are good at this, right? Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (20:41.43)
Our expectations are different, but it’s love, right? It’s love to be that thoughtful, to be that caring, to keep track of it.
George (20:52.526)
Yeah, I think the shift that has to happen is you have to, and that’s what caregiver is trying to do is trying to say, in my world, this isn’t important, but this isn’t my world, right? This is my partner’s world. What does it represent to them? And if doing the dishes makes my partner feel like, hey, this matters, I’m taking some of the weight off her shoulders, like how?
That’s just as important as like these big things that we want to do the grand gestures, you know, I want to open up the door and, do these things. Cause I want to show my partner how important they are. I think I can lose sight of that in these little details.
Laurie Watson, PhD (21:33.876)
Mm-hmm, exactly. I just think that like the person who wrote us, our listener, it was like suddenly he got it. It wasn’t, I have to be nagged to take the garbage out, but my partner feels supported and loved when I see the stress that they’re under and I act proactively to take care of them.
George (22:03.498)
That’s some good care given right there.
Laurie Watson, PhD (22:05.326)
That’s some good caregiving right there. Exactly. the man, I mean, I listen to you, let’s see, six years, six Christmases, you know, kind of complain about your your wife’s wanting to do the Christmas picture. And I don’t know, you probably are a really good sport when it comes down to it. You’re just, you know, doing what all of us do. We bitch and moan about.
George (22:09.774)
You’re inspiring me. I’m ready to clean the house.
Laurie Watson, PhD (22:34.25)
stuff but you know I just think gosh it’s it’s symbolic like like what would it be like to go this is such a blessing to us that you do this every year you arrange this my god our kids are gonna look back we’re gonna see how they grew this is so cool you know like you’re gonna get laid man
George (22:54.702)
Well, not a bad idea. Let’s take a break.
Laurie Watson, PhD (22:56.654)
Yeah. It’s Christmas is over. You have a whole year to think about this.
George (23:04.206)
Yeah, that’s it.
George (23:08.504)
But it really is about owning to our own selfishness that it, know, the timing isn’t right. Somebody’s needs are imposed upon our need. Like I don’t want to do dishes cause I’m watching a show, right? And it’s, it’s like that conflict that it’s a lot easier for our needs to say, Hey, you know what? This isn’t important. Cause it isn’t to me in that moment, but that like myopic tunnel vision.
Laurie Watson, PhD (23:20.396)
Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (23:29.558)
Right. Right.
George (23:32.877)
causes me to miss the symbolic importance of what that moment might represent to my partner. And even if we get it wrong, I think it gives us an opportunity to repair later, to be able to say, listen, you know what? I was just lazy sitting on the couch. really, you know, so I got frustrated when you asked, but you know what? You shouldn’t have had to ask. You know, I wish I could have anticipated that. I wish I could have seen that you were running around and you were exhausted too.
Laurie Watson, PhD (23:44.331)
Exactly.
George (23:59.661)
and a little bit of help always feels good. I like when I get help too and you know what, you deserve that help.
Laurie Watson, PhD (24:05.132)
Yeah, you know, and then she sits down and is more relaxed with you, present with you while you all are watching the game. You know, doing the dishes is sort of logistical, but caregiving is relational. You know, and it changes the way we feel about everything and the way our partner feels about our love.
George (24:30.35)
And that’s nice adding the relational piece. It’s not transactional. I think that’s so often when we’re doing the math and we’re keeping it to surface, it’s just an action that has to happen. We miss that relational element. So I think that’s critical.
Laurie Watson, PhD (24:43.966)
Exactly. thanks for listening to us.
George (24:49.4)
Huh?
Laurie Watson, PhD (24:53.358)
You have eight minutes? you know what? I was looking at the time. Okay.
George (24:58.328)
Yeah. So scratch that Joe, we’ll just go a couple more minutes. So let’s, let’s, let’s just summarize that from what our listener said, that he’s made a shift in awareness that he’s gone from being frustrated by these kind of asks to seeing the opportunity in the asks that here’s a way of serving my partner and giving them caregiving. I might do this in the big things of life, but I haven’t been able to cause I haven’t seen the importance of the little things.
Laurie Watson, PhD (25:00.942)
No wonder I was, you missed him.
George (25:28.078)
And all sudden it’s like the light bulb goes off and I’m like, wait a second, let me help. Let me take some pressure off my partner’s shoulders and look what happens. It’s like a honeymoon phase opens up. The partner has this energy and this more vitality because there’s less pressure. And all of sudden that comes back, which is what we know happens, right? When we care give not only the person who receives, but you get to be the person who gives.
Right? Both people expand and grow from that moment. So let’s not limit this to the big things in life, the heavy conversations. Yeah, that’s great. The vulnerable conversations, but in a little everyday practical things.
Laurie Watson, PhD (25:55.192)
Exactly.
Laurie Watson, PhD (26:07.509)
Yeah, I’d like to just offer kind of four steps to become a better caregiver. Like, and I think the first thing is what is really important is
start to assess the landscape before you’re asked to. you walk in, so many people tell me I walk into chaos. You know, I’ve come home from work and the kids are upset, they’re doing homework, my wife’s making dinner. There’s all this stuff and you know, and I hate coming into that chaos. It’s like, okay, know, step back, especially when it’s a repetitive problem.
assess the landscape. You know, where can you insert yourself as a caregiver to mediate and change and kind of take down the temperature on the evening? love that George is wearing his caregiving.
George (26:59.768)
When I go to the office, I hang this up where my keys are. And when I come home, I’m like, put on my caregiving hat. I look for an opportunity. So like, if we’re intentional, we can do things like that, right?
Laurie Watson, PhD (27:08.337)
I love it. Exactly. Exactly. So the first thing is just notice before you’re asked what’s going on around me.
George (27:18.85)
Let’s just highlight that for a second because again, it is so important when you have to ask, it takes something away from it. When your partner anticipates what you need because it matters to them without asking that is such a love language for most people. mean, it is you have me at hello with that one. So it is so important to I mean, how sexy is that that you are so on someone’s radar?
Laurie Watson, PhD (27:39.053)
You
George (27:45.164)
that they’ve anticipated what could help without you asking. mean, you want to talk about getting lucky. That’s a, that’s a good.
Laurie Watson, PhD (27:51.85)
It is. It’s thoughtfulness. It’s like, suddenly, you feel this being cared for in a way that is important to you. It goes into your very soul. So love it. Also, I think we have to
hold our partners experience as real to them. We don’t have to say it’s important to me to have the roast beef, mashed potato, six dessert kind of Christmas dinner. That’s not important to me, but their experience, all the value that they put in that is important to them. It is real to them.
George (28:24.152)
Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (28:29.653)
And so rather than trying to argue it or debate it or what should or shouldn’t be, we just say, this is your experience. This is what’s important to you. We take it in.
George (28:40.096)
It’s timing, right? There will be a moment where it is important for you to talk about your needs that might be different. You’ll deserve care given too, but not when the partner’s in middle of doing something, right? That really, they need to be the mission.
Laurie Watson, PhD (28:45.107)
Absolutely. Right.
Laurie Watson, PhD (28:52.939)
Right, exactly. If the important thing is like, look at, I get this is important to you, all this festivity and all of that, and the ritual and the soft lighting and all that, that’s important. I worry, you know, and I need like attention and sex and I want sex under the Christmas tree, right? So how can we have enough energy left over for that? You know, that may be a counter need.
to have that and it’s okay to bring it up. But I think we have to acknowledge their needs are as equally as real to them as they are as our needs are to us.
George (29:31.466)
Exactly. Number three.
Laurie Watson, PhD (29:33.792)
Yeah. So I think we have to like not make it about us. You know, it’s not our performance. It’s not look at what I did. I vacuumed the living room. It’s just like pitching in, you know, pick up the toys, take care of something, you know, take something off your partner’s plate and then just let it go. You pitched in because this is your household to this is your your children.
George (30:02.057)
I throw a whole areas TikTok where, know, the one partner’s running around doing everything. Nobody says anything. It’s just assumed. The other leg does anything. It watts like a, you know, applause every single, did you notice I just did that? know, and the partner who does everything’s like, if I had to stop for applause every time I did something, nothing would ever get done in this house. So you get these different expectations.
Laurie Watson, PhD (30:22.669)
Exactly. Exactly. So we want to make it about we don’t want to make it about us and what we’ve accomplished. just we want to respond to them. You know, and I think we also have to kind of invite repair and feedback. It’s like, OK, am I with you now? Are you feeling that? Can you sort of direct me in another way? I will say, you know, my daughter in law comes in and
She says, like, how can I help you? So we’re making Christmas dinner. And the first thing she asks is, what can I do? You know, versus maybe my sons who come in and sit down at the table. My daughter-in-law is right there saying, how can I help mom? And yeah, absolutely, there is male privilege in that. But there’s also this sense, if my sons came in and said, mom, you know, what can I do? And my kids are actually pretty good.
George (31:08.728)
male privilege again.
Laurie Watson, PhD (31:22.465)
They make and bring dishes. The sons as well as the daughter-in-laws make dishes to bring to the meal. So they’re doing something. But it’s asking, right? Asking to be directed. You know, can I help you? What could I do to help you? So great.
Okay, so caregiving is relational. It’s not transactional. Thanks for listening to us.
George (31:54.818)
This is some brave stuff too, so go to work.
Laurie Watson, PhD (32:00.557)
and have some great sex.
