In today’s episode, we are joined by couple therapy expert and EFT trainer Rebecca Jorgensen. We discuss ways to tend the flame in the bedroom; practices couples can utilize for security and safety to increase their pleasure and have more fun!
Dr. Jorgensen leads us in a conversation on what happens to the body and arousal when we don’t feel safe and what partners need to do to maintain and improve safety. When our bodies feel safe, tended to and cared for, sex is more playful, creative and adventurous. Want to invite something new into your sexual routine?
This episode will teach you how to do it the right way, the conversation you need to have before you try this and how partners can work together to navigate this in the bedroom.
Rebecca and Laurie are hosting a women’s only retreat in Salt Lake City, November 5th and 6th. The focus of the retreat will be honoring your body and exploring eroticism, femininity and ways to embody your sexual self! If you are always taking care of others and the ticker tape to-do list runs through your head during sex, this retreat is for you.
Head over to our website www.foreplayrst.com to sign up today!
Check out Dr. Jorgensen’s web presence:
EFT Counseling and Education Center: https://www.eftcounseling.org/our-clinic/our-clinical-team/
Building A Lasting Connection, Connection System®L: https://www.buildingalastingconnection.com/mentor-connection-system/
Intensive Couple Therapy: https://drrebeccajorgensen.com/intensive-couple-therapy/
Transcript
George (06:48.467)
Polyvagal theory in the bedroom. Here we go. Special guest today, Laurie, Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen, EFT trainer, and just all around amazing person. Thanks for joining us, Rebecca.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (07:04.836)
Hey, I’m so happy to be here and to talk about some of our very favorite things.
Laurie Watson, PhD (07:09.774)
Yes, and Rebecca and I are doing a retreat in Salt Lake City called Tending the Flame on November 4th and 5th, or 5th and 6th. You can find it on our website at forplaysextherapy.com and register there. It’s for women only. And we’re going to talk about all kinds of things together and we’re going to start the show today kind of talking about what Rebecca knows about polyvagal theory and how it applies
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (07:42.616)
Yeah, so the basics of polyvagal theory are around when we’re in defensive states, when we’re kind of activated in defensive states versus safety states. And Stephen Ford just really talks about the importance of having those safety states, especially if we’re going to play in the bedroom together. Because play is an activation from safety.
So if you think that playing any game that you’re playing, it’s because of feeling safe that people can get a little wild, a little crazy, have a lot of fun. And then if it crosses the line into something that feels kind of dangerous or hard, that stops the game. And our nervous system is the same that way. So when we want to have more fun in the bedroom and more in our sexuality, we need to have that foundation.
of safety because it’s an activation plus safety that equals play.
Laurie Watson, PhD (08:44.352)
Yeah, I recently saw this video probably on Facebook of a child who was playing with some sort of therapist and their parent was with them. And another person came into the room and was talking on the phone in an angry voice.
and the child stopped playing and then the person on the phone went away. But then when the child was presented with another, you know, something to play with, they just looked at it blankly, could not re-regulate and start to play again. And I thought it was so powerful on many, levels to me, certainly sexually, that, you know, we can be disrupted and dysregulated fairly easily with anger
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (09:32.89)
you
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (10:01.934)
Yeah, Georgia, do you have anything you wanted to add to that before I have like an image that’s coming to mind as well?
George (10:06.569)
Just how important the brain state is, right? If it’s in the yellow brain or a green brain and the order matters, there’s so much emphasis today on playing and novelty and introducing things. But when you’re introducing things, when people don’t feel safe, it just exacerbates the lack of safe feeling, right? So this platform of needing safety first to then introduce to play, I think it’s just so critical.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (10:31.216)
So, Lori, your story kind of reminded me of a very common YouTube video that went really viral with a dad in the playground with a child who was doing monkey bars and would take a swing and say, I don’t need you, I don’t need you. And then go, no, I need you, I need you. And he would step forward and step back to help, like, OK, I’m here. And as soon as she felt he was there, OK.
and should go forward, I need you, no, I don’t need you, right? Back and forth. And I thought about, in the sexual relationship, when there is one partner who wants more novelty, who wants to expand the repertoire, have more excitement, and if that doesn’t feel particularly safe to their partner, that that kind of reassurance, like, are we still together? Are you way ahead of me? Are you wanting me to do something I don’t?
yet feel comfortable with and that, you know, that kind of moment to moment ability to be present with each other as they’re taking these new steps could be really helpful.
George (11:38.697)
So why don’t we use that one example? Because I think that’s so classic when you have one person in a green brain who’s initiating novelty and the other person’s in a yellow brain and they’re threatened by it, right? And that’s what creates negative cycles, right? The yellow brain then protects himself by going away, shutting down, getting critical. And then the other person turns yellow. And before you know it, this nice moment has just kind of dissipated. No play happening in that playground, right?
So what would, what would, what would you do with that? If we just take that moan, if we use that for an example, you know, we always want to give examples to our listeners. Like we do role plays, maybe Laurie and I, or you and Laurie or someone of us can just role play that example where, know, one person’s coming at it and his green brain, green brain to play. And then it sets off the other person’s alarm system.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (12:28.88)
Yeah, so the thing that can be really tricky for couples, and like I’m in green, and then do I forget that you’re in yellow? Because then I will either be leaving you or imposing upon you my greenness, right? Instead of being kind of staying closer to the experience. So in that introduction, go ahead.
George (12:40.231)
Mm-hmm.
George (12:45.865)
Yeah.
George (12:53.223)
Which is a hard, a hard transition to make. If you’re in your green brain and excited and you want your partner to join you in that expansion, right? That freedom, that gas pedal that you’re in. And all of a sudden you get hit with that break. That’s pretty jolted. And now you have to transition and try to give caregiving and understand your partner when you’ve just been rejected yourself. I think that’s why these moments are so hard.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (13:16.196)
That’s right. And so it’s really helpful. go ahead, Laurie.
Laurie Watson, PhD (13:16.654)
Yeah, it’s really a re- it’s, I’m sorry, it’s a re-attunement, right? How do we move from our own state of mind and what we want and what we’re thinking and feeling to become aware of the mind of the other person, right? Yeah, that’s…
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (13:31.16)
Right. Yeah, and so there’s two ways, depending on how much safety is between the couple already. Can they have these initial conversations, like I want to introduce some play and get some agreement about that, right? So you’ve got maybe a green yellow on one partner and a green full go on the other one, maybe a mixed a little bit more towards, I’m still in my window of safety, but I’m a little bit.
anxious about it, you know? I’m in my window of tolerance that I can stay if I’m the kind of reluctant, a little bit reluctant, or newness and novelty isn’t as I don’t feel so secure with it. Then, you know, first, ideally, the expansive partner whose green would would hold and remember instead of traipsing off ahead or moving so fast.
So instead of getting a break from their partner who goes, wait, no, you’re going too fast. And then now they have to get recalibrated. That it’s very carefully approached, knowing that the more safety that there is, the easier it’s going to be to expand. And it’s much easier than stop and re-regulate, stop and re-regulate. So ideally, would be pre-regulate.
Laurie Watson, PhD (14:51.15)
Right, pre-regulate. Pre-regulate. I think that getting a break in the bedroom is not where you want to get the break. You want to have these conversations or know pretty closely that whatever it is you’re suggesting is going to go green in the other person’s brain. Because if you hit a break in the bedroom, your lovemaking session is over. Or mostly, most of the time it would be.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (15:01.402)
That’s not where.
George (15:01.949)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (15:18.928)
It’d be really hard to get arousal back, right?
George (15:21.481)
So I like how you’re naming the first part of this to be intentional outside the bedroom. The green brain novelty introducing person has to prepare themselves for the likely trigger of a yellow brain. And they’re going to have to support their partner to do that. They know that’s part of the mission going in. If I’m going to try something new, right. We’re to try this new position. I’m really excited about it might stretch you outside your window. And I got to kind of pause myself to give you my caregiving system to kind of help you kind of work through that.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (15:51.064)
Yeah, it kind of reminds me about like in the emotional cycle, you know, in that way, like we want to put like training wheels on learning to ride the bike, right? Have those supports in place, knowing that you’re on kind of dangerous territory for one of the partners.
George (16:09.669)
Exactly. So what about the partner who gets hit by the break? What’s your advice for them?
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (16:16.354)
Well, of course, also we want them to kind of come in prepared, right? In the sense like I’m doing something that’s hard and difficult for me because I love my partner and I want to be more sexual. I want to have more satisfaction for not only provided for them, but also to, you know, expand myself and grow as well. So having in that pre conversations and those preparedness conversations to think about what am I going to do? Like how so
George (16:19.955)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (16:45.892)
when I can feel and notice, like, when am I having a struggle, like staying with my bodily experience? When do I, because we can feel when things are increasing, like in arousal, and when they’re not increasing. So having kind of some early signs, like, you know.
whisper to me. What is going to help me erotically then in a new space have more surety that my partner is there and cares about me and they’re helping me? it’s that they whisper to me. I’m sorry. Okay.
George (17:18.627)
George (17:25.413)
Hold on a second, Becca. We lost you about 30 seconds ago. You froze. Yeah, no, you’re back now. So you were… Where do we lose Lori?
Laurie Watson, PhD (17:36.77)
So you were saying, it was right after you were talking about how we can feel, you know, if something’s working, if there’s arousal growing, right?
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (17:43.96)
of fail things go up and down. So we’re the kind of the partner that tends to be in like I can put on the break easy. I’m gonna be a little more yellow. Also has an awareness of we want that growing awareness of, you know, is my arousal increasing or is it decreasing? So, and what helps me if I can identify that in before, like it helps me.
George (17:44.509)
Yeah, go from the body. Yeah, over from there.
George (18:09.639)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (18:13.902)
when my partner whispers in my ear or tickles me in a certain place or reminds me that we’re okay. So it helps for me if I’m the reluctant or reluctant partner to know what it is that increases my sense of safety and feeling wanted and cared for. What’s gonna help my green, what’s gonna help me go more?
So I can say, I might even say, whisper now or touch me here so that I can also claim where I’m at to help my partner know before the break, before I’m way out of my window.
George (18:42.867)
Can I?
George (18:55.633)
Yeah. It’s nice if the person who’s going yellow has a plan, the pre-plan, right? And knows that there’s something they need that would make them feel safer. Don’t try to figure it out when it’s happening. You already kind of know some things that could help before you get too yellow or start turning in the red direction.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (19:16.944)
So if we dial that back even a little bit farther, then when they are before they’re playing and they’re were involved sexually, that I get used to speaking or giving some sort of physical cue about what helps me, what I like, know, what’s turning me on so that my partner can be used to being receptive and responsive to me to help me grow in my arousal.
Laurie Watson, PhD (19:46.222)
I think that’s something so beautiful. You’re really talking about responsive desire, but it’s not that you’re just, it’s the responsibility in being responsive, right? That we also want to cue our partner into, you know, what feels good, how we can kind of shape the experience sexually to be more exciting for ourselves through kind of gentle whispers or talking
or helping our partner know what it is that we like. I think that my own experience as a woman is that, and you know, I do have a little different slant on this, but even still in our culture, there is not a lot of teaching or expectation that the woman should be kind of the shaper of the experience when she has responsive desire. It’s sort of like somehow or another, it’s all up to the man.
Laurie Watson, PhD (21:30.7)
And I know that’s a hard thing sometimes for people to receive. It’s like, yeah, but aren’t we expanding? Aren’t we going further? It’s like, yes, but the only way we get there is being able to say no. We can come back. I have something to say about that.
George (21:46.857)
All right, second part, do we want to introduce more the unpredictability of McCarthy or you want to go towards the desire piece of fanning the flame?
George (22:03.517)
What what what excites you, Rebecca?
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (22:06.614)
I was listening for Laurie. Well.
I mean, think, well, if we head towards some of how we can help in the scenarios that we’re talking about, then we’ll be kind of reviewing our learning objectives for the retreat, think. All right.
George (22:25.149)
Perfect. All right, let’s do that.
Laurie Watson, PhD (22:25.152)
Yeah, I think so. Let’s do that. Okay. You want to come bring us back in G or shy? Okay. Okay.
George (22:32.355)
Yeah, bring us back. wanted to add something too,
George (22:38.117)
Being more intentional, being getting your plan outside the bedroom for some of these conversations. I guess what I’d like to add too, is just that awareness of protecting your partner. If your brain is going yellow and your break is getting hit. I mean, it’s so easy to just go into a fight a fight response and not see the impact of your partner who’s in a green brain. So just some awareness that says, thank you. know you’re trying to spice things up, but this is, is fun. I’m just, you know, getting a little tense, like just that a little bit awareness of your partner.
To help them help you, think really goes a long way.
Laurie Watson, PhD (23:11.53)
Exactly. You’re talking about that awareness between our mind and what’s in their mind.
George (23:18.973)
Yeah. And seeing the relational dynamics. mean, so easy to get tunnel vision in these yellow brains and our breaks, you know, the world shrinks into our own world and we just don’t see what’s happening for our partner. And then we miss the, you know, the engine that’s going to drive this interaction. So getting those reps out of outside of session, being able to, know, even if you mess it up in session, it’s a lot easier to repair, right? When you get out and say, we did it again, hit away. You know, I remember a client I was working with had a trauma response and she would freeze it. She didn’t have much choice when that would happen.
And then a partner would get rejected and he would just roll over and they’d have this miserable time, but they had so much healing afterwards and revisit in the scene and trying to do it differently.
Laurie Watson, PhD (24:00.367)
Red brain, yeah. If we go into red brain, we have to have a plan. If trauma gets struck or something like that. So Becca and I, I mean, I think what we’re doing in Tending the Flame in Salt Lake City is really going to talk about somewhat this attunement to our own eroticism, right? Like…
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (24:47.138)
Yeah, so that as we know where our safety is, where the roadblocks or danger signs might be, then we have a strong safe base to keep coming back to and relying on and grow from.
George (25:05.319)
Yeah. It’s hard to have really a great desire when it’s being squished by these negative cycles and yellow brain. So why don’t you give us some, some ideas to our listeners, like, what, are some ways of really kind of fighting for your own desire besides just getting help from your partner to make you feel safer? Let’s say we’ve done that, right? A partner’s helped kind of regulate that. Then, then what?
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (25:31.876)
Well, so there’s a couple of things that are really quite helpful to a lot of women. One is just learning. Our anatomy is so different than male anatomy. We’re talking about heterosexual relationships. Lots of women don’t even know where to locate sensation in their body that would say, I’m aroused.
They don’t have an, it’s not so, it’s cloaked for women. It’s not prominent and up forward. It’s cloaked and women, cloaked by the hood, absolutely. Women got to learn to attend to it. so one, paying attention is important. And Lori can talk as well.
George (26:10.195)
cloaked by that hood, right?
Laurie Watson, PhD (26:12.11)
So true.
Laurie Watson, PhD (26:24.77)
I would say too, that I think as a woman in a heterosexual relationship, we’re often comparing ourselves to the male anatomy and arousal cycle, which is usually so much more speedy. so women, think, without kind of having affirmation from other women and actually knowing what’s happening with other women’s bodies and in their sex lives, they assume something is wrong.
Laurie Watson, PhD (27:36.602)
that something was, had really gone wrong. And certainly it had changed. You know, and I was able to say to her, you know, it’s like, how long did it take before? And she’s like, well, you know, it was only like five minutes. I’m like, okay, well, girl, you stood in front of the line, you know, this was awesome that you had that ability, but now you’re just kind of back with the rest of us, you know? And I think, you know, knowing that she built confidence in her body and confidence in this stage of life,
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (27:52.73)
Thank you.
George (28:31.229)
Well, I want to hear about the expanding the flame, you know, men are, like you said, pretty easy. It’s going to throw the gas pedals, pornography, let’s give me a glass of wine, try a different position. Let’s blindfold. Like you said, physiology. So what are some of these gas pedals for women once they feel safer?
Laurie Watson, PhD (28:52.716)
Yeah. got back to you, you go, you’re, you’re my guest. I was thinking about the erotic core kind of just like fantasy and play and, and getting in touch with that internal eroticism, right is, is so great. And something that we often are not given permission to do.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (28:57.107)
well, I’m thinking of some of the really, there’s, yeah, go right ahead, me too.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (29:19.428)
Yeah, and maybe do it and don’t know we’re doing it so we don’t know how to build on it, like the way that we might think or fantasize and aren’t even really aware of what’s going on in our head because we’re multitasking or doing other things. So, you know, that fantasy, lots of women find help in some of the books that they read that bring some themes up for them to utilize and to bring into.
their relationship but toys are really helpful. You know what’s the percentage, Lori? It’s something like…
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (30:00.44)
Yeah, I was thinking about the percentage of women. think it’s 75 to 85 % of women won’t orgasm without clitoral stimulation. And some women don’t know that, for example. Or multiple points. And lots of men don’t know that. Or multiple points of stimulation.
Laurie Watson, PhD (30:16.398)
Lots of women. Lots of women, and I would say lots of men. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
George (30:17.831)
Lots of Lots of men.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (30:25.536)
Even clitoral stimulation isn’t enough. I need other erotic zones to be stimulated as well for orgasm.
George (30:25.841)
One of my favorite.
George (30:34.729)
One of my favorite videos that Lori shows working with a couple is, you know, the husband finds out this psych-ed disinformation that 85 % of women can’t orgasm through intercourse. And he’s like, what? You kidding? Like he had so much pressure and shame and a sense of failure. And he’s like, that’s no, it was just such a like a freedom moment for him. And so I get the psych-ed and I do want to just push a little bit because.
We use these vague terms like, they just got to tap into their erotic mind and kind of some fantasy. Like, what does that look like? I mean, you’re laying there with your partner, your partner’s aroused, ready to go. And like, you got to do something. I don’t understand what, what’s going on in the female brain. Like, what do you have to access? So can one of you role play that like being Maria or somebody else, like what that would actually look like.
Laurie Watson, PhD (31:19.63)
You want us to tell the fantasies, To the whole world.
George (31:24.745)
This is like the secret world that you said cloaked early. I’m like, I would know what the heck’s going on what you’re talking about
Laurie Watson, PhD (31:31.574)
Yeah, I think that women do have sort of an erotic mind and many times they access it, like you said, privately, Becca, or maybe they don’t even realize that this is the turn on and they don’t know how to take it further. They don’t know how to deliberately access it, maybe on a night that they’re having a little trouble. You know, I think fantasy is a…
a dicey thing to think about because we want to be connected to our partner. But I also think that sometimes it’s a bridge into arousal. so kind of knowing what the turn on is, what they think about, getting curious about that and having permission to use their brain in it. And then also kind of setting it up right so that their let’s say their play menu includes sensation and pacing and the
and the setting all around and maybe power differentials and the language that they want. Kind of curiosity as well as that list of this is a no-go place and I know that we’re not going to do that so I can feel completely safe like we started talking about in the beginning.
George (32:47.697)
Rebecca was talking about the importance of being sensual. Help us understand more about that, Rebecca, with this kind of erotic mind and it’s looking for sensuality.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (32:58.544)
Well, you we do a lot of this in EFT therapy, where we’re having people slow down and what are you feeling in your body? What’s going on here, right? But we want to build on that sensuality that we can start with what’s not sexual just to become more aware of our bodies, because often if we’re moving really fast and we are women have a tendency to multitask and carry a lot of mental load.
an emotional load that just being present with themselves, right, with ourselves, that we can like stop and smell the flower. Where do I, what sensation does that bring me? What am I feeling right now? Just kind of adding that additional sense of being more wholly and fully connected into my senses that can be.
kind of a stepping stone towards then moving sensuality into sexuality. now what actually do I feel? Where do I feel tingly? Where do I feel tingly? Lots of women, that’s their first indication that maybe there’s some arousal happening. It can be small and very easy to dismiss. like beginning to pay attention to some of those early cloaked.
sensations that are indicators of sexual arousal.
George (34:29.915)
I love how the body brings us into the present moment. We’re distracted, the mental load is too much, we’re all over the place. If we can notice, we like that touch or the smell or whatever that sense is really does bring us to the moment, which is the key to great sex.
Laurie Watson, PhD (34:46.35)
I think too, one thing I’d really like women to think about on this weekend is kind of maybe almost like journaling. When have they felt the most powerful sexually? When did they feel the most sexy? When did they feel deeply desired? And when did they most deeply desire? And what happens with those feelings as they kind of noodle on them and think about them and imagine them
and how can they then bring those intentionally into their sex life now?
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (35:26.21)
And what helps them make, yeah, what helps them feel so safe? Like if my worst fear is abandonment, then you coming towards me, right? Seeing me, whispering to me, what, like when Lori’s talking about these, what best sexual experiences have I had that there’s themes to that and we can map those themes out and then build on those themes.
George (35:26.269)
Those are good questions for men too.
Laurie Watson, PhD (36:06.274)
you know, we, this is not just in the woman, it is also between her and her partner. So we want to kind of explore all of that. And then I think, kind of what I imagine is women to leave the weekend with sort of a scheduled practice, how do they pre-
think about what they want? Maybe is there a ritual that they can do that brings them into their sexual moment of power and freedom and connection? How can they protect their eroticism so that maybe it’s against all the pressures of their to-dos and their half-dos of the day? How can they intentionally say, is really important, so that they can maybe make no pressure dates or something?
George (36:57.489)
Nice. I’m excited for the two of you and all the women coming to this retreat. I would hope for me what you can do is I, it’s a new term when I hear you say, you know, build out the map. I think there’s a lot of ideas on how to start it, but people, it’s like drawing stick figures. They need a more detailed picture here. So really getting clear on how do you map it out in a fuller way to kind of integrate these many different pieces. It’d be pretty cool to see what that looks like.
Laurie Watson, PhD (37:26.702)
That would be fun. Well, thank you, Dr. Rebecca Georgison. Yeah. And I just want to say, and fortunately, the fact that I talked over you will be deleted. Also, we just want to talk about
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (37:28.248)
That’s going to be fun.
George (37:31.167)
All right, Rebecca, it’s so much fun for you joining us. What a gift to our listeners.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (37:35.472)
Thank you so much for all you’re doing for couples and for sexuality and their relationships. The connection’s so important.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (38:23.44)
Yeah, so I have a clinic, a local clinic, you know, in southern Utah, outside of Las Vegas, about 90 minutes that people come into for intensive couple therapy. And then, you know, I have clinicians that work there that are doing EFT. And where we’re really trying to make sure that we’re doing both cycles, the sexual and the emotional cycle, because we know that it’s so important to be able to be connected both ways for a romantic relationship.
George (38:51.613)
And you wouldn’t know it by looking at Rebecca, but she’s one of the original trainers. mean, what was that? The first retreat we did Rebecca, right? That was like nine trainers. How long ago was that? But she was one of the original ones.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (39:03.154)
gosh, yeah, it’s embarrassing to say how long ago it was, think, George.
George (39:09.705)
what a gift you are to our community and inspiring so many people that keep stretching their leading edges.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (39:16.368)
Yeah, thanks. It’s great to work with you.
Laurie Watson, PhD (39:16.876)
Yes. And we also have something, product too, created for connection, right? And it’s on our website. I’ve been trying to look for it, but we will link you to it. This is when couples are secure, and tell us just a little bit about that as well. thank you. Yes.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (39:32.094)
you’re talking about the lasting connection system. Yeah, that’s a communication mat for couples and therapists to learn. Like if you’re learning EFT, you’ve got couples that want homework, then it’s a great way for them to it’s it’s a system systematic way to process emotion together to learn how to process emotion together. Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (39:55.214)
Thank you. And that’s on our website. has been on our website, although I can’t at the moment find it. It will be on, it will be linked on this episode. So a great, a great gift. Okay. Thank you for coming. Thank you for being with us.
Dr. Rebecca Jorgensen (40:05.296)
Great. Thank you.
Yep, thanks for having me. Look forward to seeing you in Salt Lake.
George (40:12.467)
Keep it hot, Rebecca.
