In today’s episode we are answering the question ‘why we need each other to feel safe?’ Join hosts, Laurie and George as they breakdown the definition and importance of co-regulation. A necessary experience beginning in childhood and spanning the life cycle ,co-regulation is the process of someone being responsive to our distress and needs. We don’t outgrow this need but we do get better at self-regulation as we get older. The need for co-regulation shows up in our adult intimate relationships all the time. If you think about it, you most certainly know when it goes wrong!
Listen in today as we discuss how co-regulation shows up in the sexual cycle and how the safety it provides is the launchpad to adventure and exploration. Are orgasms co-regulating? Download this show today and hear how!
Transcript
George (00:33.275)
We all need co-regulation, Laurie.
George (00:39.195)
Let’s do this, co-regulation and self-regulation, right? Super important, both of them.
George (01:15.839)
This is most effective way of dealing with stress. Your emotional system gets activated, there’s some kind of anxiety, and using a caregiving system, somebody else to co-regulate to join you in that. It’s like two nervous systems are joining together to deal with the stress instead of just one. We can see why some research talk about co-regulation is 20 times more powerful than self-regulation.
So if a baby is anxious and the mom picks the baby up, in a matter of moments that nervous system calms down. If you leave that child alone, it will take a couple of minutes to calm itself down, which is what self-regulation is. Both are important, but we want to maximize the power of co-regulation.
Laurie Watson, PhD (01:57.923)
And we’re born needing another nervous system that’s bigger than our own to help us calm down. So we learn how to do that quickly.
George (02:08.102)
Yeah, I think co-regulation gets a dirty word to some people. I know a lot of male clients I’m working with who really…
prioritize self-regulation and that’s good in a lot of settings. It’s like, you’re so needy, you need this co-regulation, know, it’s something sensational or sensitive about it. Where really this is just, I did a training the other day with a bunch of firefighters and police officers and what I was trying to get them to see is like, if you’re going into a fire, you’re doing that because you’re using co-regulation. You’re using other firefighters with you, you’re part of a team.
each other down. Like your anxiety is reduced because other firefighters are with you reducing it. I work a lot with the military. mean, we don’t use the term, but we need to start kind of helping these people. think they’re so into self-regulation that they’re actually using co-regulation a lot. It’s a beautiful thing to know someone else is joining you to handle your fear. You’re not alone to handle your fear.
Laurie Watson, PhD (03:10.648)
Exactly. And I think people talk about co-regulation, saying things to each other like, like if you’re calm, then I’m calm. Or I need you to hold me just so that I can breathe today. Or maybe something like, you know, when we’re fighting, I can’t even think straight. I say that about the house if the house is messy. If the house is messy, I can’t think straight. I need you all to clean it up. You know, or I need to know you’re not mad at me. That might be one way to sort of look for your partner.
George (03:45.785)
Yeah, and how do we reframe that from not being needy? That that’s actually a really healthy thing to do. You want another nervous system to help you with your anxiety. And we can’t always have that. Sometimes, you you got to deal with threats on your own. Somebody’s not around. That’s what self-regulation is.
Laurie Watson, PhD (04:02.99)
Right, self-regulation, when we have to learn as adults to manage our own emotional and psychological states. And I think there’s a fantasy that our partner will do that with us. Maybe a pursuer fantasy, George, whenever we need it, whenever we want it, our partner is there, our best friend is there to regulate us. But sometimes in adult romantic relationships, that’s only intermittent, right? We have to also learn how
George (04:54.027)
I think the order matters. Secure Attachment says when a child learns the power of co-regulation and feels safe, they can go out and explore the world because they’re less stressed and they’re better able to learn how to regulate and self-regulate that stress. And if it comes outside their window of tolerance, they can come back and get co-regulation. They trust in co-regulation. So it’s actually easier to self-regulate when you’re able to trust co-regulation.
Laurie Watson, PhD (05:21.262)
So true. And I mean, just think about it. A couple who is secure with each other, that they can come home and pour out their fears. They can get comfort. They can get the cheerleading and the support that they need. They are more apt to go out and be successful in the world, whether they’re giving to their community, raising their children, working a job. They have that energy and that regulation to keep calm, you know, whenever they’re out there. my son,
has a new job and a lot of things happened right when he got hired. The person who hired him was fired. And the person really pitched the job to him and he was very excited about it and suddenly, know, there’s like all these people are like, we don’t even know why you were hired and the things we think you should have been told to be doing, you know, we don’t even think they need doing.
George (06:14.683)
you
Laurie Watson, PhD (06:15.32)
You know, he’s getting all this negative flack. And one of the things I knew is that his family and his wife, you know, we’re good co-regulators. It’s like he was just, you know, upset and anxious, and I don’t know what this means, and I’m getting all this pushback. And I thought, okay, we’ll give it a week, you know, because I could hear, we have a group chat, and I could hear his brother saying, man, that’s tough. Wow, that’s really awful. And everybody was pitching in with comfort
George (07:27.771)
It’s beautiful. Co-regulation does in no time and space. mean, both of my parents are not here, but they were so consistently responsive to me when I needed them. I can still just imagine that and it gives me the benefits of co-regulation. I’m going to do a big speech and I’m a bit nervous. You know, I can just imagine my dad saying, it’s no big deal, dude. You’re going to crush it. And like just hearing the voice allows my nervous system to start to calm right down. I mean, this is how we are made. We are made to deal with stress.
in relationship. know, people, a lot of people don’t recognize in a fight or flight response that yellow brain, yeah, we know a lot about adrenaline and cortisol that’s trying to get us to respond, but oxytocin is released, which most people don’t recognize. In a stress response, the love hormone, the cuddle hormone is released. It is our body’s way of telling us, don’t do this alone. Get other people involved in this process. It is the most efficient, effective way of managing stress.
George (09:32.317)
Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (09:36.888)
you know, is it needy? I mean, maybe in the beginning it kind of is. But later on, I think if you do it enough, just like with our children, they are needy. We do co-regulate them. But then we’re so proud of them when they grow up and they’re out there doing their thing, facing the world. Maybe they do come home still, but most of the time they’re being able to regulate self-regulation out in the world.
George (10:02.809)
Yes, we need to reframe, right? That needy is a healthy thing. You’re wanting what is, we know works best and most effective. Can we need that too much sometimes? Does it feel like a black hole in certain relationships? Because there’s no ability to then self-regulate it. We want to do both. But I want to flip this around for a second, because I think a lot of withdrawers, emotional withdrawers,
I think what a lot of people don’t recognize is every fight is a failure in co-regulation, right? If I want to be heard, if I’m Joey and, I’m getting a message from Maria that I’m failing and being critical and I try to get defensive and I try to talk Maria out of it and she don’t understand me and she gives more examples of how I don’t do this. Like that is a failure co-regulation. I am having a stress response, but I am not getting any care given to that.
Just like Maria’s not getting any, mean, that that’s a failure in co-regulation. I think what a lot of people don’t realize is though, when I go away to deal with that, that’s self-regulation. My body is actually learning how to trust my own soothing.
because co-regulation is failing. And this is the story of so many withdrawers, just the math behind. They’ve had so many failures in co-regulations and so many successes in self-regulation, no wonder why they trust self-regulation.
George (11:30.363)
And we can’t just talk them out of it, right? They need the experience sharing that and having success with co-regulation.
Laurie Watson, PhD (11:37.262)
Right. And I think one of the things in my own marriage, married to a withdraw, the things that I’ve seen is I don’t personalize that going away period. It’s like I know that…
often for my husband, needs that self-regulation just to trust again and then he often comes back now and shares whatever the matter was. It’s still part of our pattern where he self-regulates and goes away, but I think the change has been my co-regulation of that is to allow for it, to allow space for it and to be okay that it doesn’t mean the end, doesn’t mean the conversation’s over, it doesn’t mean that he’s abandoning me
George (12:34.083)
right when he comes back and he’s actually then sharing what he couldn’t share in that moment you’re able to give him success in the sharing so the co-regulation just comes later for him in the middle of it happening he still trusts the self-regulation but he’s coming back in that part that’s growing in trust and co-regulation is happening
George (13:23.451)
Let’s come back and maybe talk about this in the sexual cycle.
George (13:30.363)
It was 13 minutes, but I’m gonna go a little shorter.
George (13:40.131)
I think this could be pretty evident, Laurie, in the emotional cycle with the pursuant, which are, and how that’s a failure in co-regulation. Let’s talk about it in the bedroom. You know, when one partner maybe initiates.
connecting the way they feel safe and the other partner is not in a mood and feels the pressure of that and maybe says no and that sets off a negative sexual cycle. Right, that too is a failure in co-regulation. You the person who’s being rejected’s feelings are not being dealt with. The person who feels like they’re failing and disappointing their partner, that’s not being addressed. You know, both roll over mad at each other. That’s a failure in co-regulation.
George (15:00.687)
Yeah. Well, wouldn’t you agree that great sex is co-regulation?
George (15:31.259)
Yeah, I guess. Traditionally, we talk about co-regulation around a threat response and anxiety. But I see this, you know, with my kids growing up, wanting them wanting me to join them in their joy. That’s another form of co-regulation, right? Being able to join each other. Like you said, it’s attunement. Like if they’re happy that they just caught a ball for the first time and you’re like, you just did it. Like that, that just dance that you do and joining together like you’re you’re regulating each other’s
And to me, that’s what it feels like lovemaking is. Like at its best, it’s two people in synchrony that are like kind of riding these waves, dancing with each other, you know, joining each other’s emotional experience.
Laurie Watson, PhD (16:14.19)
I love that. I love that. I think that’s so true that kind of one person’s excitement sparks the other person’s excitement. It’s contagious, right? Laughter and teasing and shared anticipation. All of that when we mirror each other’s delight, we reinforce it.
George (16:26.479)
Yes.
George (16:37.787)
So that’s success in co-regulation.
Laurie Watson, PhD (16:45.14)
sexist touch, right? It’s skin on skin, it’s stimulating our oxytocin, it calms our threat response down. So many people who have been in a fight or had a hard time and then they have sex and it’s like, you know, things aren’t so bad. We’re okay. You know, they just kind of have that way of rocking together in a way that feels like, okay, we’re good again. And that’s physiological in part.
George (17:30.459)
I always feel like co-regulation is about meeting needs. If you’re anxious, you need some reassurance, it’s meeting that need and that’s what’s soothing. My need is I want you to want me the way I want you. That’s the need and you meet that need because you want me the same way I want you. Now that’s that contagion that you’re talking about, that expansion, that freedom that starts to grow each other.
Laurie Watson, PhD (17:55.256)
Yeah.
Exactly. It’s the, and I think freedom is possible when we’re co-regulated, right? We’re free to explore, we’re free to suggest things, we’re free to experiment because we already are safe with each other. I think in sex, the freedom is the place that we’ve come home and now we’re going out on the journey. The freedom is the journey. We can do fun stuff, we can do whatever
George (18:34.831)
get the name of the researcher. We’ll put it on our website. But I love the study of basically he took students on the university and had them put a backpack on and just climb up a mountain. And all they did in this study is like, you ready to put this backpack on and climb up the mountain? there was two iterations. They were alone or they were with a partner. And basically they said, all right, go. All they did is take seven steps.
And they said, right, experiment is over. Let me take your blood. And the people that were alone were burning seven times more glucose than when they were with their partner.
which just shows how our brain perceives a challenge, how it mobilizes to deal with a threat is heavily influenced. So when you had co-regulation, had somebody else there, the mountain wasn’t so high, the backpack wasn’t so heavy. When you’re alone, it is. That’s just a stress. I we all have to be alone at times, but our natural state, we do better with co-regulation.
Laurie Watson, PhD (19:36.108)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Isn’t that neat? I mean, it’s the same sort of thing that… I think it’s Jim Cohn, right? In his study, the backpack study, the backpack weight study. No, Jim Cohn is the hand holding study. The backpack study is… Let’s see, maybe I can find it.
George (19:47.502)
MRI study.
George (19:54.863)
Yeah.
George (20:16.699)
Mm-hmm.
George (20:30.169)
Yeah, done as profit. That was it.
George (20:37.595)
That doesn’t mean we’re pathologizing self-regulation. We wouldn’t be here also if we didn’t at times need to take care of our own business. And I think this is especially relevant sexually. It’s okay to kind of retreat into your own world, try to figure things out. There’s some safety in that, that you want to kind of think about something before you do something. I mean, we all go inward.
And when we could find success in that too, the world is just, trust both self-regulation and co-regulation. we, is where true freedom lies.
George (21:28.643)
I that’s you’re letting go and somebody else is holding you. There’s surrendering that’s happening in there. So like you’re not alone in your orgasm. Your orgasm is happening with somebody else. I think that’s what makes it co-regulation. I mean, if you’re masturbating, an orgasm feels good, but it’s not the same because it’s self-regulation instead of co-regulation.
Laurie Watson, PhD (21:50.818)
Right. I would say just, and this is the side note, that I have never had as powerful of an orgasm masturbating as I do with Derek. Like it’s always markedly more powerful. I don’t know if that’s the potential of co-regulation and being attuned and maybe the release of oxytocin with another naked body next to me that just makes it so much more powerful. I mean, literally the intensity is so different.
George (22:21.509)
I think that’s co-regulation is steroids. It’s a little burst.
Laurie Watson, PhD (22:26.438)
So cool. It’s really the way we expand together, the way we play together, we kind of light each other up and, you know, maybe orgasm is that peak that’s co-regulated. I mean, it sounds almost like when we say co-regulated that regulation is going to make it contained. But I think it’s more about
two nervous systems resonating, joining, that makes it, know, potentiates an even like greater experience. It’s not just about soothing. It’s also about amplifying.
George (22:55.877)
Join in, right?
George (23:04.283)
Yeah, I think we’re trying to expand. Yeah, I think the traditional definition of co-regulation is around soothing anxiety. That’s why it’s containing the emotion, right? We’re just adding a different element that we believe, you another important part of co-regulation is more this positive attribute that it’s enjoining. You get to expand with people.
Laurie Watson, PhD (23:39.918)
I mean, sometimes maybe regulating means softness and calming, but other times it could be, especially I think in sex, we can co-regulate in a way that makes it wild and big. You know, there’s in that safety, we can go even further.
George (24:02.011)
That’s why to me it fits because in its simplicity if I’m anxious and I’m needing your care given I need something you give it it’s the need being met that suits the nervous system and it’s what allows us to get into a state of connection Why would that not happen around positive affect right where I need something from you? You give me what I need and we join in that space except now there’s a more positive emotion than just a calming of the negative emotion
George (24:48.027)
Mm-hmm.
George (24:54.561)
Nice. Well, get out there and co-regulate people. Co-regulate.
George (25:12.897)
speaking about launching and exploring. This is exactly what we’re going to be doing at the SV lab in Fayetteville or online September 11 to 13. I mean we really are trying to push the edges like there’s a lot that we don’t know about and we really need like-minded people coming together get it excited right we’re making the implicit explicit so be there.
