In today’s episode we are digging deep into sexual fears and how to ask for help. This is a quintessential move to shift partners from a negative cycle to a positive one. When we are able to see how we are protecting and what we are protecting we can uncover the true need and ask for help.
Join Laurie and George, in this conversation as they provide real fear examples and how to ask your partner to meet your needs. As the receiving partner it can feel like pressure to fix or solve when this vulnerability is spoken. Our hosts will guide listeners on how to provide the best empathic response to promote care, connection and co-regulation. Joining one another in the stress and not being left alone is a key move to shifting the relationship to a new dynamic and facing fears together. Get brave with us today as we face our sexual fears and ask for the help we need!
Transcript
Laurie Watson, PhD (00:13.038)
Okay. Okay, George, today I really want to talk with people about how they express their sexual fears to their partner and what an empathic response would look like so that we give a lot of examples because this is what brings people closer and gets them through their blocks.
George (00:38.813)
Nice, I like it.
Laurie Watson, PhD (00:48.138)
Okay, we so appreciate you patrons out there who are helping us on Patreon. You can find us on ForPlay, forplaysextherapy.com. And we just appreciate you if you would love to join us in our mission. We know some of you have complained about our ads, but we need a little bit of funds to produce this podcast. You can do a one time donation that would help a lot, or you can do an ongoing support.
George (01:17.003)
We’d love to get to the point of not eating heads. So if you’re willing to donate, we need to help and spread the word, Instagram, different areas where we’re on. Again, that’s what makes a big difference.
Laurie Watson, PhD (01:33.632)
And join us too on Instagram for Play Underscore Sex Therapy Podcast. We’d love to see you there. We do a lot of good content. Okay, back to our fears. And for those of you who are geeking out with us on EFT, this is stage two, of course, and how we want people to share their sexual concerns and their sexual longings too.
George (01:42.559)
Nice. Fierce. Yeah.
George (01:59.275)
You know me, I like to always have an overview. I like to try to keep this simple. So I’m always looking for three things. Every couple’s dealing with three things. It’s how do we protect ourselves? What’s the threat underneath the protection and what’s the need? I mean, those are the three areas. if…
Usually a negative cycle is just people protecting themselves, right? One person’s angry, one person’s walking away. They’re both walking away. The only reason people are protecting themselves is because there’s a threat response. All the negative cycle is protection from a threat response. So trying to get underneath those protective moves right before they walk away, right before they get angry, something is happening. And the whole point of EFT is trying to…
get to that vulnerable fear, threat, hurt response, not just because we want to, it’s the wisdom of saying every hurt, every fear has a need, has something that would help it. If you actually got help, you wouldn’t need the protective move. That’s why we’re trying to replace old moves with new moves. I don’t need to walk away. If right before I do, I feel like I’m failing and I could ask my partner for help with co-regulation with that, it changes the ball game.
So that protection just blocks both partners caregiving system, right? And then neither person gets any help. And it’s the not getting help that causes all this protection. So that’s in all these examples we’re going to give, we want one person to get into that fear and get the other person’s caregiving system, right? Which allows a new move instead of that protective move.
Laurie Watson, PhD (03:29.72)
Right, exactly. And I think when you say they need help, what we’re talking about is we want the person, their partner to respond empathically, to care about them, right? That’s the help that they need. It’s not necessarily help with had orgasm or anything like that. It might be what they need, right? But they need to ask for that.
George (03:41.174)
Mm-hmm.
George (03:45.559)
Exactly.
George (03:51.329)
fixing the problem. Well, sometimes that might be what they need, who knows.
George (04:00.853)
And that’s the good news. I mean, we get in our own way, but when somebody we love is struggling or hurting, it pulls out our heart to want to come closer. And that’s what we’re trying to tap into here.
So let’s go and give us some examples, Laurie.
Laurie Watson, PhD (04:16.938)
Okay, so maybe my fear is, you know, I’m afraid I’m not a sexual enough person for you, right? If I’m a sexual withdraw, and I hear a lot of complaints or criticisms or wishes that I were different, then I could be a fear. Then I could be afraid of that.
George (04:37.015)
Mm-hmm.
George (04:41.599)
Yeah, that’s a big one.
George (04:46.165)
So if you want me to do the response, okay. Well, it must certainly leave you anxious to keep worrying about this all the time. I’m sure it’s hard to relax and enjoy the moment. You know, I’m sorry, it sounds really difficult.
Laurie Watson, PhD (05:06.252)
And I would say that, you know, sexual fear like this, it’s about being safe. My fear may be even of being vulnerable and my shame about this. it goes deep inside. those deep fears shape my avoidance. So what I want from my partner is empathy and to kind of figure out, help me figure out and help me deal with the underlying fears that I’m going through.
George (05:37.921)
Right, so that needing validation, needing permission just for the struggle to be seen, to be understood in that place. This is oftentimes as a partner we want to minimize and say, don’t feel that way. it’s, no, you’re amazing. we leave the person alone with the struggle. So the need sounds like, Laurie, what you’re looking for when you feel like you’re not enough sexually is just seeing how that fear kind of puts a lot of pressure on you and just wanting to be known in that place.
Laurie Watson, PhD (06:07.479)
Right, and I don’t need yet, no, you are enough sexually, right? I don’t need the counterbalance. I need you to come to me to see what I’m struggling with to be empathic in that place, because then I really feel heard and listened to. And I’m not alone.
George (06:18.956)
Mm-hmm.
then you’re not so alone in that place. And I think that’s the myth for a lot of us that want to go right to reassurance to say you shouldn’t feel that way. It’s like, well, great. You spend many, many hours in this place. And I’m basically going to just say you shouldn’t be there, which is another message. You’re doing it wrong. It just leads to isolation.
George (06:44.759)
Hmm.
George (06:56.875)
You express some jealousy with my friends and what’s happening. You’re dealing with this stress all the time. It can’t feel good to worry about our sexual conflicts. It’s not only that, and then where it could lead afterwards. I appreciate you sharing. I didn’t know you carry that much fear.
George (07:50.463)
Mm-hmm. And it’s somewhat attached to the one before that maybe the reason is I’m not enough. But again, that fear is focused on me and what I might be doing, and it’s not really talking about you.
So what, how is that? Are you just again wanting to be understood? That’s like that you’re not crazy, that this is hard to live in a place where you’re constantly thinking the relationship could end because someone else comes along that offers more than you.
Laurie Watson, PhD (08:26.574)
You know, I think it’s a conversation, right? If we were starting here and this was kind of out of the blue, I would want my partner to come to me to be sympathetic to what I’m dealing with. And maybe it would broach the conversation into more specific things or the reassurance that I need. Hopefully, the person, if they’re bringing it up like this in a soft way, they could also ask for what they need. It’s like, look, I just, you know, I worry when you’re with
George (09:19.927)
I think the order matters to try to connect first before you try to fix. Right? So to just allow as the responder, allow my heart to feel the fear, to feel the hurt, to try to connect to my partner in it. And then after that connection piece comes, probably the fix in it is given some reassurance, some kind of, you know, responsiveness to comfort.
But a lot of times if we go right into reassurance and comfort without connecting to the fear, it feels premature.
Laurie Watson, PhD (09:55.927)
And it’ll feel like a blaming, like my partner is blaming me and then I have to defend myself, right? I’m not, I don’t even think about Angela that way or whatever, you know? Okay. That’s a good one. Okay, good. I’ll do it in the, in the order that’s vulnerable. So, know, Hannah, I just worry. It’s like I…
George (10:08.375)
Let’s roleplay it. Let’s roleplay you saying it again and this time I’ll go out of order.
George (10:40.215)
You shouldn’t because I really am attracted to you. It’s just you and I want and you really shouldn’t feel that way at all
Laurie Watson, PhD (10:47.98)
Okay, I’m good. I think what happens is you haven’t come toward me yet in terms of really getting underneath the rock with me, what I’m feeling. Okay.
George (10:57.303)
Mm-hmm.
George (11:00.875)
Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (11:04.278)
And then if I said, well, yeah, but what about Angela? know, I mean, she seems really hot for you and you guys work closely and I don’t know. just think, why would you not want somebody who’s, you know, seemingly so sexual and seemingly so into you? I mean, I know she’s a colleague and all that, but I don’t know. Just as a woman, I can see something different.
George (11:30.015)
Yeah, she’s not my type.
George (11:37.255)
Again, I like playing with this because it’s so easy that what Laurie’s sharing can bring up my own defensiveness that doesn’t want to approach because it feels afraid of it, right? It’s going to encourage it. I just want to talk her out of it and move on to something else. And I miss that important piece that’s the heart of what we’re trying to share here is the how do you connect with and keep the focus on the person sharing?
Even if it’s not rational, even if it’s not making it’s not about you. want to keep the focus on the person’s fear.
Laurie Watson, PhD (12:12.652)
Yeah. Because you know if he says, she’s not my type, I’m like, well, if she was your type, would you be interested then? So you’re saying it’s just a matter of finding your type. I mean, we would just be off to the races, That would not be a good response. Okay. Because, and again, the person who’s sharing the fear needs the focus. Okay.
George (12:24.545)
Exactly.
George (12:37.365)
Yeah, well, that’s I like this. Let’s come back and practice a couple more of these.
George (12:48.992)
Yeah.
George (12:52.343)
All right, welcome back. So let’s flip this around, Lori. I’m gonna share some of my fears and let’s see if you can connect. Or maybe you won’t. Let the audience figure out, is this a nail or a fail? I guess, who do you wanna be? Joey Maria? Okay.
George (13:14.209)
I don’t know, Maria, guess sometimes I’m afraid that coming your way sexually means I will wind up being pressured to do things I don’t really want to do. I’m going to lose myself if it’s not really what I want. I don’t know. I guess I am afraid of being controlled or something.
Laurie Watson, PhD (13:38.872)
get it? Because I think the things I want in sex are really different than the things you want. So I understand it. It’s like if you start to do things my way, you’re going to lose perhaps track of all the things that you enjoy and want. And, you know, maybe it wouldn’t be enough for it might be too much. That’s, I think we get into that struggle with each other that, you know, you doing it my way is
George (13:57.623)
Hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (14:08.354)
then you’ll be controlled. I have a funny scenario about this, George. Back to George and Lori. When I was sort of an early sex therapist, I had this guy who was really frustrated with his wife because she didn’t want to have sex much. they were having sex once a quarter. And eventually, in the work, we got to the point where she was willing to have sex three times a week. So.
You know, I got this guy from one time a quarter to a lot of sex. And the woman said, you know, what would really help me is, you know, she had a list of things that would help her turn on. Like, I would love it if you’d light a candle. I’d love it if you’d turn on some music. I’d love it if you’d shave and shower first. Frankly, I’d love it if you wear your cowboy boots to bed. And guess what he said?
George (15:01.463)
No guesses.
Laurie Watson, PhD (15:04.406)
Yeah, just, you I can’t possibly do those things. All that rigmarole, you know, this is crazy, why can’t we just be in bed together, you know. Which to me is the right, if I come your way, he felt controlled. But she had come so far his way, which to me just proved that it was a cycle. know, like even when you get what you want and sort of staying with, I can’t possibly go your way at all.
I think it’s about this, but of course he was not ready to talk about his fears at that point of being controlled and being asked to do too much and he could accept it, but he couldn’t really go her direction.
George (15:48.407)
you
They always imagine the person who’s sharing what they need is the mission. And the other person’s role is to keep their caregivers in focus on that mission so they can have success. And what blocks it is our own stuff, right? So when he’s like, well, that seems like too much, like he’s making it about him that precisely the moment she needs a focus to be on her need. You know, we all come up short, we get blocked in certain areas, but really even the next day when we’re trying to replay it and repair the scene,
It’s going to be some combination of that, that you weren’t able to keep your heart open and focus on the partners need and give them some success there because your own stuff gets in the way. Which means you need some help there too, but you can’t do both at the same time.
So let’s try another one.
George (16:40.255)
mean Joey’s hasn’t been working out recently so he’s got a bit of a, you know, the dad body that’s belly’s starting to grow. So I guess there is a fear that’s, you know, I mean, I don’t find my own body super attractive. And I guess that’s my fear that, you know, that’s part of why the lights are out, everything else. You kind of don’t find my body so attractive anymore.
Laurie Watson, PhD (17:11.832)
When you’re looking in the mirror, I’ve heard you kind of critique your body and stuff and so hard to have sex and not be naked though. But I can imagine it’s painful to look at yourself and not even enjoy that and then think, okay, if I don’t enjoy looking at my body, do you think I’m not gonna enjoy looking at you or be attracted to you or wanna have sex with you? Right, because you’re unhappy there and.
George (17:49.015)
Thanks for understanding. There’s something calming about just being understood. You’re no longer alone in those places. I’m not crazy. I don’t wake up wanting to do this. It’s just these insecurities we all have start to emerge. And I’m taking a risk to let my partner into my insecurity because I don’t really want to have to face it alone. It’s really a sign of strength to want to not be alone against some of these big fears.
George (18:20.407)
So let’s do a fail with that.
Yeah, I guess I feel you’re not so attracted to my body anymore.
George (18:46.965)
Yeah, you’re right. I guess I should.
George (18:51.753)
What what?
George (19:04.631)
You just gave it to me, but you want to try again after I fail or something?
George (19:11.617)
We just did this one before and we did a nail, you nailed me. I felt understood.
George (19:20.471)
All right, so I guess I want to encourage our audiences to take it a step further. It’s one thing to share the fear and hopefully your partner can help you with that. It’s another to actually try to sit a little bit longer and ask for help. What do you think would help with your own fear? This is the riskiest, but this is the solution to the problem. If you don’t want a negative cycle, you got to ask for help. You know, and that’s what…
Unmet needs create negative cycles. Here we go. This is how we create positive cycles. So I’m reading the next one. Like I’m afraid I won’t get turned on quickly enough, right? And that’s a fear and that puts a lot of pressure on me. So if I sit with, can share that fear and Maria can respond to that with some connection and normalize and validate and permission, which would be great. But I guess I’m going to challenge myself to sit in that place where I feel like,
If I don’t get turned on quickly enough, I’m going to fail you that there’s something defective about me that I’m not a great lover. That’s kind of the insecurities in that place. And I guess if I would kind of listen to my own heart, what I might need is some permission to not get turned on.
immediately, right? Some patients that says there’s nothing wrong with me because I can’t, I just have a different clock that comes into this and I just, really, I guess that’s what I’d be looking for. So you wanna role play that? All right. So Marie, I’ve been thinking about.
get so frustrated with myself that I just can’t respond so quickly. Like immediately get turned on. Because you know, maybe I used to when I was younger and I feel like that’s what I’m supposed to do. I guess I do feel like I’m failing somehow and I’m coming up short. I guess in this place.
George (21:22.291)
You could really help me by saying like, it’s okay, we’re changing, we’re getting older. It’s no big deal to not get turned on immediately. That, you know, we just do our thing, everything’s gonna work fine. And like, I guess I need help with that pressure. Can you just be patient with me?
Laurie Watson, PhD (21:42.046)
I appreciate you kind of admitting to your concerns and your fear. I think I feel it from you, this worry and you know that you’ll take so long and take longer than you used to when you were young.
George (22:40.503)
Thank you. I do feel I need more of a transition from the stress of the world into my lust zone. I just can’t jump into it like I used to. just knowing that both of us can work on that and take some pressure off and help each other with the pressure, think really just even now I can feel myself relaxing a bit.
George (23:09.015)
So again, just feel a difference between me just saying I have this fear and me asking for help with the fear. I mean, this is the riskiest thing, but this is also the most powerful move we have in relationships. To have our partner join us to handle the stress, that’s what co-regulation is. Maria, can you help me with this pressure instead of me always dealing with it on my own? I don’t do so well with it on my own.
Laurie Watson, PhD (23:35.98)
Yeah, exactly. That sense of ask from you, the request for what you might need from me too, like…
George (23:38.103)
There’s research around.
Laurie Watson, PhD (23:47.15)
kind of makes it personal to me, pulls me in. It’s not just an admission, but it’s between us. And it makes my heart want to give, right? This is what activates the caregiving cycle is when we see our partner in distress, we want to help. Most people if they’re not psychotic, when they see somebody injured or emotionally hurting, you know, it pulls at us, we want to make it better. And we’re asking that you have a little bit of skill in how you make it better that you
George (24:02.625)
Yeah.
George (24:38.519)
It’s the game changer. It’s the solution to the problem. You won’t need to protect yourself if what is at the threat, you can help and get the help you need. I mean, that’s just a simple math of what we’re selling with decades and decades of research saying this is what securely attached people can do.
We all fight, we all miss each other, step on each other’s toes, but there comes a point where we can kind of slow down, let our partner in and reach out for help and our partner comes and gives it to us. We both need help. When I have pressure and I move away, that’s gonna do something to Lori too. But that’s a separate mission. She’s gonna have to let us into her fears. And the same thing’s gonna need to happen.
George (25:28.961)
You all got homework assignments. Slow down. One mission at a time. One of you is the sharer. What is it you’re fearing? What might you need in that place? And the other person’s job is to keep the focus.
Give them some care given, give them some success. Help them not have that move you don’t like. You don’t like that protective move because something is driving it. Let’s get to the core of this instead of just treating the symptoms, which is the protective move. So many couples, you just want to say, stop walking away, stop being angry, stop being angry. And they’re not getting to what’s driving it, which is this place.
George (26:20.631)
You’re right. So everyone, we’re also excited about successive vulnerability. We have the first ever laboratory to explore and experiment and to try new moves, September 11th to 13th. I think this is one of those trainings people are to be like, I wish I was there for the first one, right? Where we really are trying to kind of take clinical process in session moves, micro moves really to the next level. So.
Come and join us. It’s online and in person in Fayetteville, Arkansas.
George (27:21.303)
Keep it hot, y’all.
