In today’s episode, we discuss the importance of caretaking in intimate relationships. Things can go awry when one partner is looking for affection, nurture or attunement and it’s read as blame. We all need to be cared for by one another and this is an important system to tend to.
Join our experts, Laurie and George to learn more about the caretaking system in your relationship, your needs that you need responded to and how you can provide everyday care to your partner. So what does this have to do with sex? Laurie challenges listeners to a 30 minute emotional debrief a day. If the partner that needs this debrief is met with care and attentiveness chances to better and more sex skyrocket! Don’t believe her? Give it a try and make sure to write in your results of the challenge to our listener mailbag on our website www.foreplayrst.com.
Check out this episode’s sponsor (and help the pod!):
Uberlube.com — Laurie’s long-time favorite personal lubricant. It will help keep it hot!
Transcript
Laurie Watson, PhD (00:05.783)
caretaking, let’s understand when we overdo it and when we underdo it and how this impacts our body and let’s think about all this, G.
George (00:21.283)
Caregiving, so important to the success of any relationship.
Laurie Watson, PhD (00:26.867)
and to the success of our sexual relationship.
George (00:33.046)
I always say as a couples therapist.
It’s the missing system. It’s, you know, if you have a partner, we talk about Joey Marie all the time. And Maria says, Hey, I want to talk about something that made me upset. And she’s coming from her emotional system activated. wants Joey’s caregiving to listen. Unfortunately, her comment triggers Joey’s emotional system. now you’re criticizing me, tell me I’m failing. And his body wants to defend from that. So he doesn’t engage or doesn’t listen, which is exactly what Maria’s needs from caregiving. So neither one of them wind up getting
any caregiving system. And that is the simplicity of a negative cycle. Both people triggered, both people in emotions, needing something, not getting it, unmet needs, so their body has to protect themselves by defending and both get deprived of the solution, which is a caregiving system. So if all our listeners like this really is the key, trying to figure out how do you get better at bringing your caregiving system online and using that because it’s, it is love and action, right? That caregiving system.
Laurie Watson, PhD (01:22.861)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (01:35.127)
Right, exactly. And the caretaking system is the responsiveness to the needs in the sexual and emotional systems. And of course, I was wrong. If you listen back a while to the first episode we did on this, you’re to hear me with some other ideas. But I’ve come full circle on this. it’s basically, yay! It’s the attachment part of us.
George (01:44.73)
Mm-hmm.
George (01:58.048)
Yay!
Laurie Watson, PhD (02:04.695)
that wants to protect, care for, nurture, and soothe our loved ones when they’re distressed or they are vulnerable. I mean, as a parent, we’re infants and children in their vulnerability. And sometimes that innate part of us also comes up for our partner. want to protect them. And when they ask us for their needs, we want to give that to them and nurture them with whatever it is they’re asking for.
part of us that loves in the caretaking cycle.
George (02:37.32)
The caregiving focuses on the other. It wants to give to the other, it’s altruistic. And what blocks that is when you get caught up with your own emotions and you make it about you, you can’t access that part that focuses on the other.
Laurie Watson, PhD (02:44.237)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (02:51.19)
Mm-hmm.
George (02:51.574)
I mean, again, back to its simplicity. I want Maria in her emotional system talking about her pain. She’s in view of self. And I want Joey in view of other focusing on Maria so he can empathetically respond. That’s how people have success in co-regulation, right? The baby cries, mom picks it up. It’s that same system. don’t matter how old you are. One person sends a clear emotional system of need.
Laurie Watson, PhD (03:10.092)
Mm-hmm.
George (03:14.21)
the other person keeps the focus on them and gives them what they need. And we can always switch missions and switch roles, which we have to, but that’s the simplicity of success in co-regulation.
Laurie Watson, PhD (03:23.053)
Yeah, and we show up for our partner when they need us. And sometimes, particularly, sexual withdrawals ask me, George, are you saying, Lori, that I have to have sex whenever they want to? Is that how I’m going to have to show up? And it’s like, no, it doesn’t actually mean that. You get to have an autonomous life as well. But overall,
George (03:38.787)
Hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (03:51.904)
if you’re in a committed sexual relationship, and we know some people, you know, that’s not their mode, but if you are in a committed sexual relationship, yeah, you have to care about your partner’s sexual desire and their needs and figure out, you know, how together can we manage this, especially if there’s a discrepancy in desire. But it’s not just…
being entangled in the negative cycle, push-pull, we have to break out of that. We have to go, oh, OK, my partner is really different here, has needs that I don’t have. How can I think about that in a new way? I think likewise, right? So many people I know don’t need to have long discussions and talk about everything. They just don’t. That’s not what they need. But their partner needs that.
George (04:44.448)
And that reception to that is care given.
Laurie Watson, PhD (04:47.977)
When you think about your partner’s needs that are not your own, you know, it’s caretaking.
George (04:54.38)
You had a long day. My wife’s conversation with her mother. She’s an hour on the phone arguing and she’s done. And what does she want to do? She wants to just debrief and she’s looking for my caregiving system.
Laurie Watson, PhD (05:02.112)
Hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (05:06.701)
Alright.
Exactly.
George (05:09.418)
And what we’re saying, same with sex. it’s the wrong time, because I’ve also had a stressful day, I might need to say that because my emotional system is overwhelmed and I don’t have the capacity. But if I have the capacity, it just doesn’t feel good for my wife to respond. It feels good for me to caregiving. That’s the beauty of it. It’s a double win for both sides when caregiving meets an emotional system.
Laurie Watson, PhD (05:19.073)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (05:32.031)
Exactly. It’s like when you think about somebody, your best friend, and you go shopping and you wrap this present up and you present it to them and there’s delight when they receive the gift. Right? It’s so satisfying to the giver. You know, when we give care and it’s taken in, it feels good. I think similarly, when we give care and it’s blocked, we all feel something like
George (05:49.346)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (06:01.485)
jangled about that. Think about trying to give your partner a sexual compliment. You got a great ass or whatever it is. they defer. It’s like, oh, no, no. I need to work out more. It just not having it go in doesn’t feel as good, right?
George (06:25.26)
Yeah. And it shifts you out of that caregiving probably into your own emotional triggers. A shift in. Well, we were talking about just brainstorming here, like trying to think about if you’re in a relationship and you want to be in your caregiving system and your partner’s sharing something emotionally, know, three things could happen if we go back to those lights, green, yellow and red, like the traffic light.
Laurie Watson, PhD (06:30.433)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.
Laurie Watson, PhD (06:45.868)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (06:50.87)
Mm-hmm.
George (06:52.002)
Right. Green is your caregiving system stays open and it wants to respond. So you move in with caregiving, which is beautiful. We want to make sure that we do that because that is half of the solution to this. Right. But sometimes actually we are still got caregiving where we’re
Laurie Watson, PhD (07:04.012)
Mm-hmm.
George (07:09.866)
empathetic, but our own stuff starts to bubble up. That’s what we call the yellow light. It’s like, you know, I do feel sad for you, but I also hear hints in this that it’s my fault. And that part of me is wanting to defend myself and it’s going to take my caregiving system offline. So we got to learn what to do with that, you know, cause that’s likely to happen in conversations. Our own stuff’s going to bubble up and it might not be the right time. What do we do with that yellow light?
Laurie Watson, PhD (07:29.367)
Mm-hmm.
George (07:34.062)
And then the red light is just, you know what, there’s something our partners saying that just takes our caregiving system offline. own emotions become so big. Like we’re, we can’t finish the mission anymore. The, know, we’re to have to shift this mission because we’re, we’re gone. The caregivens gone. mean, this is now going to turn into a negative cycle. Unless there’s a couple, you have a plan for what you’re going to do with this. So like these three States are happening for all of us. This is just a way of being a little bit more intentional and trying to
Laurie Watson, PhD (07:34.081)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (07:59.053)
Mm.
George (08:02.402)
Think about your plan now instead of when it’s happening and it’s too fast.
Laurie Watson, PhD (08:06.701)
And you’re talking about the polyvagal response at this point.
George (08:13.172)
I’m just messing around with it. It don’t necessarily need to be polyvagal, but it’s just trying to say, hey, my caregivens open. Things could happen that start to trigger it to start getting more defensive. And, you know, there are probably things we can do to work with that. I don’t know. We’re just riffing here. We actually, Dr. James Hawkins was like, you should try to do something on this. I was like, what the heck? We can play with it.
Laurie Watson, PhD (08:19.5)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (08:27.873)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (08:33.259)
Yeah, yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (08:40.875)
Yeah, Doc Hock. So great sending you love from North Carolina, Doc Hock. People here love you a bunch. But I think that one of the things I observe is that urgency about trying to fix something in my partner or something’s wrong. the risk is misattunement. It can get frenetic.
George (09:05.026)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (09:08.383)
And on the caregiver side, we can become kind of hypervigilant and sometimes controlling, micromanaging things, offering comfort that’s not really attuned to the person’s needs and, you know, can feel this sense inside if we’re kind of in fight or flight in yellow brain that danger, danger, connection is slipping away. I have to do something.
George (09:17.048)
Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (09:37.931)
have to help my partner in some way. If I don’t do this, I’ll lose you. So it comes from the internal state of my hyperactivation when I’m in yellow brain and then it messes up the caretaking because it’s not what the person needs.
George (09:42.466)
Mm-hmm.
George (09:57.866)
Exactly, that’s what we’re trying to develop a game plan for. So let’s just go with the yellow light then. Like I think that is the combination. You see this with parents, it’s like I want to give you what you need, but I’m not sure I’m able to do. My own anxiety is coming up alongside it. It says if I do it wrong, it’s gonna, my kid’s gonna go down a wrong road.
Laurie Watson, PhD (10:02.434)
Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (10:12.749)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (10:19.105)
Mm-hmm.
George (10:24.334)
And then all of a sudden that anxiety starts to snuff out the care given, right? It’s misattuned. The kid doesn’t feel heard. They feel lectured too. And it has a good intent with the parents trying to do, but it’s, it’s misattuned. then the parents can’t pivot and move with the child. They, keep doubling down on that same kind of anxiety that’s grown within them.
Laurie Watson, PhD (10:24.395)
Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (10:27.82)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (10:31.628)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (10:45.079)
So true. When my kids were in high school, we had a standard lecture about when they got a grade that they weren’t happy with. You know, like, if you had done this much more studying, what grade do you think you would have gotten? Right? Like, you know, I did this much. And it’s like, OK. And if you had spent a couple more evenings, just 20 minutes on this subject, where would you have been in terms of your understanding? That was standard lecture. And I remember in college,
My son got a bad grade, really bad grade. And he was telling me about it and how he had stayed up all night playing games and wasn’t blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I didn’t play the lecture. I was just like, And I remember it was like bait. Like he kept throwing out all these difficulties, hoping that I would step into that same caretaking role. But I was.
really good at that point, not so good all the time. But like I was honoring his autonomy, his own consequence of being unhappy about this grade. Like I was letting him, I remember he got really frustrated with me. Like you’re not doing the thing that you normally do, which is take over and then I can be mad at you. You know, like you’re just lecturing me rather than being mad at himself, right?
George (11:59.234)
guys.
George (12:02.638)
Mmm.
I love that when you’re celebrating a parental victory, we beat ourselves up enough when life throws, but it is nice to see moments where you kept your dad’s a green light, right? Your caregiving system stayed open. You stayed curious on him. You didn’t make it about you, right? And as much as he wanted to get away from that and you forced him to sit with his own experience, which is what really a good parenting does, right? We’re keeping the focus on him. He needs to keep the focus on him too.
Laurie Watson, PhD (12:07.597)
Yeah. Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (12:15.105)
Yeah. Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (12:25.292)
Mm-hmm.
George (12:33.944)
get out of that place, but if he gets out of it he’s not going to know himself in that place. So that’s such a great example.
Laurie Watson, PhD (12:38.017)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Somebody else told me this this week and I offered my own sense to him. Telling a lot of things about me today. But I remember I could see problems in my husband’s family of origin and how they were with him. And sometimes I would be his defender and I would say things and try to bring everybody’s attention to.
I don’t know how great my husband was and how they were missing him and yada, yada, yada. But it didn’t work really well. Just kind of put me on the outs with my in-laws for a while. And I remember consciously stopping doing that. I’m not going to take care of him in this way because it’s misatuned to him. It’s like, this is something if he wants to change it and figure it out, he can do that. And it was a huge shift. Like in our relationship.
George (13:13.78)
Mm, yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (13:32.843)
my relationship with my in-laws and in his own relationship with his family. Like he suddenly, you know, needed to kind of deal with his own feelings. And what the cool thing was, is he started opening up to me about his real feelings instead of having to defend his parents or his family, all that, you know. Bingo. But I want to say one last thing about the red brain place that we might go down to is that sometimes in caregiving, maybe
we feel overwhelmed by our partners. shoot. Okay, this is only the halfway point. duh, I thought we were done and I’m like wait wait one last thing. Okay, Joe scoot back to that last place. That’s why I was going on and on.
George (14:03.075)
Let’s come back and do that, Start up again. Here we go. Yeah, it’s only halfway point, so we’re, yeah.
George (14:15.277)
Yeah.
Well, let’s come back, Laurie, and we’re going to talk about more that red.
Laurie Watson, PhD (14:24.543)
Okay, so when we think about being in red brain for caretaking, it might be that, you know, we’re feeling kind of overwhelmed by something that’s going on with our partner. And so we can’t give them the care that they need because if we enter that place, we will get dysregulated. You know what I mean? Like,
George (14:37.614)
Mm-hmm.
George (14:50.926)
We see this a lot with really with sex, right? One partner wants sex because it’s their way of connecting and the other is feeling majorly disconnected. And, you know, if they actually engage in sex, it would be traumatic for them. It’s not going to disconnect that sex is really bad. They might say no, but that, they might not even say no. They might say, what’s wrong with you? All you want is sex. And they might like lash out. Right. That’s that is not caregiving. That is, you know, defensiveness from their own emotional dysregulation for good reasons.
Laurie Watson, PhD (14:59.98)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (15:07.372)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (15:18.333)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, they can’t say to their partner in sort of green brain, like, I get it. You’re so horny. You want sex, you know? And I’m so shut down, and that’s such a bummer. They can’t even touch that because it’s overwhelming, and they feel helpless. They feel futile about resolving this. So it’s just better to disengage, go quiet.
go low energy, turn away, you I don’t know how to help, I don’t know how to help today, you know, I’m not there. And I’m gonna fail you if I do engage in sex that, you know, you’re gonna know that I didn’t really wanna be in it in the first place. So they’re gonna pull back.
George (16:01.742)
I think in a red brain we need to take ownership for that. Maybe we can’t do it in a moment, but like we cannot give the caregiving.
Laurie Watson, PhD (16:05.761)
Mm-hmm.
Right. Yeah.
George (16:09.582)
Our partner does deserve caregiving, even if the timing is wrong for us to be able to acknowledge like, I’m not in a place to give you that. Right. And so we’ll need to have this conversation another time and maybe you need to walk away or whatever you need to do to regulate yourself, but just recognizing at some point, if we’re going to repair, we have to take ownership for those red brains to say, I was not in a place to give you the thing that you needed. It was an unmet need. That’s a missing relationship. Your caregiving was blocked. We’re not blaming you.
Laurie Watson, PhD (16:16.781)
All right.
Laurie Watson, PhD (16:30.507)
Mm-hmm.
George (16:39.566)
good reasons for it, but I think there’s power in taking ownership to say, you know what? wasn’t able to meet your need.
Laurie Watson, PhD (16:45.141)
Yeah, and the good thing about being adults is we don’t always have to hit it at the exact time it’s happening. We can come back. We can explain ourselves later to our partner. I mean, it would be perfect if it happened in the same moment. But if it can’t be perfect, second, secondly, the next perfect thing to do is to explain later, like, you know, I did see your need. I was so shut down. I, you know, I was afraid to touch it and.
George (16:56.439)
Yes.
Laurie Watson, PhD (17:14.369)
but you didn’t get what you needed. didn’t get my open eyes looking at you, my sense that I was attracted to you, my reassurance that there would be another time. You didn’t get those things and you didn’t get sex either. So that really sucks for you and I’m sorry. And right there, that is caretaking in the moment. It’s secondary, but it’s coming back and providing that from the system that says you’re important.
taking care of your knees is important to me. I wanna be there for you. I couldn’t be in the very instant, but I can later, you know, explain myself and come to you.
George (17:50.54)
Yeah.
And you deserve caretaken too, right? When you had to say, no, that sucked for you. Something was happened emotionally for you. At some point, your partner is going to have to give you that curiosity and focus on you and give you caretaken. You just can’t do both at the same time, which is unfortunately what most couples try to do. Which is a setup for failure.
Laurie Watson, PhD (17:56.162)
Right.
Laurie Watson, PhD (18:05.772)
Right.
Laurie Watson, PhD (18:10.301)
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, in the debrief, that’s what we hope, right? One of us goes first and offers caretaking to the other, and then the other person gets more relaxed, has more space internally, feels their need is met. And then the beautiful thing about the caretaking cycle is when my need is met, there’s something innate about me wanting to meet your need. Yeah.
George (18:37.016)
Yes, that’s why I want to return to the yellow, because I think the yellow light is the most common thing that happens in couples. It’s like, I’m Joey, I want to give Maria care given. I know that’s the mission. That’s helpful for me to know. She starts to talk and I feel the empathy. She didn’t want to have sex. I want to be curious, know why she has good reasons. It’s not the time to make it about me. But as Maria starts to talk,
Laurie Watson, PhD (18:43.575)
Sure.
Laurie Watson, PhD (18:53.741)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (19:04.278)
Mm-hmm.
George (19:06.96)
It’s very common that our own feelings start to bubble up. And we got to have a plan for that. Like we got to be able to say to that part of myself, this isn’t the right time to talk about me. We’re going to get to that. That’s really important. But if I give the microphone to this part of me that wants to express my hurt too.
Laurie Watson, PhD (19:12.535)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (19:17.473)
Mm-hmm.
George (19:25.942)
I’m good. It’s going to block my caregiving and my part does not in a place where they can give me caregiving. Cause they’re talking about their own emotional experience. Like if I give the microphone to this part of myself, I’m setting us up for failure. got to learn how to take that part of me and say, hold on. You have good reasons. We’re going to get to this. I promise. Just hold on a couple more minutes. Like you got to have a plan for that. You’re identifying when your own emotions are going to take over your caregiving.
Laurie Watson, PhD (19:25.963)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (19:40.375)
Mm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (19:51.019)
Yeah, I got a promise here for everybody listening. If you have a partner who needs to emotionally debrief whatever the day was, giving them 30 minutes is going to double your sex life. If you give that 30 minutes every day, just test me.
George (20:10.732)
I say 15 minutes, but you know, what the heck. All right.
Laurie Watson, PhD (20:12.755)
No, no, I’m saying 30 because it’s like it takes that long for us pursuers to process, right, and to unload. But what is the result after the unloading? What happens inside us? I feel emotionally connected and seen. And that’s the oftentimes the trigger for sexual desire. I mean, just test me.
George (20:28.743)
You feel connected and safe.
Laurie Watson, PhD (20:41.037)
30 minutes of debriefing every day.
George (20:41.24)
But no, yeah. Well, let’s play it out. This is the balance of both systems though. If I’m the withdrawor emotionally, and I’m gonna give you that 30 minutes of caregiving, like there is a part of me that’s hoping I’m gonna get some caregiving later from you, because my way of needing connected might be sexual. And when I don’t get that,
Laurie Watson, PhD (20:52.151)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (20:56.62)
Mm-hmm.
George (21:01.61)
later in the day, that’s going to trigger that imbalance, that frustration, that resentment that then the next day is going to get in a way of me giving you the care given and listening again.
Laurie Watson, PhD (21:10.867)
No, no, and I am so about that. And you know I feel that. But just as an experiment, just as an experiment, go first. Like, go first. Give first. What?
George (21:22.368)
first. Throwing some dishes there can hurt either.
Laurie Watson, PhD (21:29.709)
I’m serious, going first without the hope of sort of return, just saying, you know, this is my commitment to this partnership. I’m going to go first. I’m going to give this regardless of the outcome, right? I just know it’s going to work. I know it will.
George (21:31.822)
Thank
George (21:52.242)
And when you’re trying to do that, it’s normal to have those yellow bubble up. Like how long is this gonna last? You you think I’m gonna have sex, like when you notice yourself thinking about you, that’s what I’m saying. You gotta be able to catch that and say, I don’t wanna give this to space right now. Let me refocus back on my partner. That is the mission here. Caregiving focuses on the other. When you start to think about you, you’re going off mission, you’re going away from yourself.
Laurie Watson, PhD (21:57.229)
Sure, sure.
Laurie Watson, PhD (22:03.745)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (22:19.989)
And I have just said this in reverse to George. I have told people who have sexual pursuers as partners, like, find a way, offer sex every day for two or three weeks. Like, maybe it’s a gifting kind of sex, right? I’m not into it myself, but I’d love to have you inside me and on top of me. know, like, you know, whatever. It’s just a gift. I’m not necessarily feeling desire, but I want to have sex with you.
and maybe find ways to feel sexual before. Try it for, nobody ever in my practice has met three weeks. Like their partner is like, okay, enough with this sex stuff already. What got into you? Like, can we take a break? I mean, when there’s intentionally meeting our partner’s needs, I mean, sometimes, right, it,
rebalances that frenetic pursuer part that says I need more. And once they get it, they relax and they have more space.
George (23:24.332)
Mm-hmm.
George (23:28.246)
you’re emphasizing the power of a caregiving system. It is so powerful to, know, when needs are met, people are different people. And we have all these good reasons why we get blocked from doing that because we’re not getting our needs met either. And it really just becomes a power struggle of unmet needs. So you can control what you can control. You can control your caregiving system. You can get better at keeping a focus on your partner.
Laurie Watson, PhD (23:31.234)
Yeah.
Laurie Watson, PhD (23:45.398)
Yes.
George (23:52.332)
and trying to give them what they need. And I agree with Lori, don’t listen to our words. If you get better at meeting your partner’s needs, you’re going to have more success with yours.
Laurie Watson, PhD (24:01.171)
Absolutely, absolutely. It triggers the desire in your partner to take care of you. It does. Experiment. I want people to write me letters like, Lori, I tried this experiment for three weeks, just like you suggested. And I want to hear the outcome.
George (24:07.598)
Hmm.
George (24:19.448)
can’t wait to get all the pursuers saying I tried it it didn’t work
Laurie Watson, PhD (24:24.773)
30 minutes. Can you feel George trying to whittle that down to 15? Come on, baby. 30 minutes.
George (24:26.338)
Well, we could just get, yeah, 15 minutes. It’s been a long day. Yeah. I like the intentionality of focusing on what I can control. I mean, I noticed this in my own relationship. Like, you know, when I am listening and I have good intent and a couple of minutes later, something starts to bubble up inside of me and I’m like, look, it’s, it’s so easy to give that to microphone.
to just let that part of you express itself. And if you could just stop that moment, I think what I find is almost all the time I’m gonna do that, and I’m gonna make it about me in that moment, it’s bad timing. It is really, my wife’s in a spot where she’s feeling heard and listened to, and she should want more of that, and I’m gonna take it in a different direction.
Laurie Watson, PhD (25:10.881)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
George (25:23.872)
And in doing that, I’m going to take away caregiving. And how can that feel great when you’re getting the thing you need and it gets taken away without even an explanation, without even a transition for me to say, Hey, is it okay? Like, are you good now? Can we, cause I wanted to talk about something. I could use some caregiving with you. mean, that’s a very intentional couple when they’re able to kind of express which one’s given and getting caregiving and which one’s not instead of doing what most of us do is we just kind of bounce all over the place.
Laurie Watson, PhD (25:26.701)
you
Laurie Watson, PhD (25:42.839)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (25:46.956)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (25:52.467)
Exactly. Exactly. And that part that bubbles up in you, right? Most typically is the part that says, okay, if we are going down, if she’s unloading all these negative feelings, she’s going to be negative. There’s not going to be that fun possibility of maybe sexual connection, which, you know, as a man, you might need. So it’s like, why would I go down this path? So you’re
George (25:52.524)
and hope for the best.
Laurie Watson, PhD (26:21.101)
yellow brain goes halt, no, let’s change her mind, let’s make her positive. What else did she do today that we could talk about? Oof. Oof, duh.
George (26:33.368)
So it’s never good when I jump in and be like, you you’re not going to change your mom. You should just accept it. And it’s like, that’s making it about me. It’s not what she’s needing to hear. It’s just my body’s attempt to not have to hear the message I don’t really want to hear, which is about me again.
Laurie Watson, PhD (26:40.267)
Right. Right.
Laurie Watson, PhD (26:46.077)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Exactly. And that’s the hyper-activated caretaking. That’s when you’re, like, urgent about fixing it, you know, so that, you know, somewhat certainly to relieve her so she can start making decisions so she doesn’t get sucked down this path, but also so that you don’t have to feel the distress of listening to that.
George (27:03.715)
Yeah.
George (27:08.875)
But let’s not delude ourselves. We do it like we’re doing them a favor, what it really is about us. Again, I think when you take ownership of that, there’s some freedom in that. There’s some freedom in saying, you know what, I’m sorry yesterday. I couldn’t listen to it anymore. And I said you should do this, but that really isn’t about trying to help you. That was really me wanting you to take care of me. And that’s a very different message.
Laurie Watson, PhD (27:13.421)
you
Laurie Watson, PhD (27:23.053)
Hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (27:27.436)
Mm-hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (27:31.033)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And what an amazing confession, right? To say that, like, because it’s going to make sense to her. She’s going to have known it anyway. But you saying it, it’s going to just dissipate the bad energy between you, right?
George (27:36.046)
Hmm.
Laurie Watson, PhD (27:52.341)
I think you should go try it, buddy. I think we’re about done recording here, so maybe it’s about that time. Well, thanks for listening, y’all.
George (27:56.536)
Yeah.
George (28:00.12)
Give it a shot.
