In today’s episode we are talking about the act and art of touch. Touch is one of our primary attachment needs and we need it from cradle to grave. Touch is often a hot button issue between couples. Distance and disconnection in the relationship can create anxiety and pressure around touch. What stops touch from happening between you and your partner? Ask yourself is there a cycle that comes alive when one of us is seeking touch and what can we learn from it?
Laurie and George share more about how vulnerable it can be to receive touch and that a key to safety in this area is non-sexual touch. Increasing affection that isn’t centered around sex but strengthening the attachment need in the relationship. It’s important to reduce the pressure here, work on relational safety and get curious with each other. You’ll take away ideas on how to promote non-sexual touch, exercises that stimulate pleasure and little ways to enjoy more touch together.
Special announcement for all couples therapists who want more EFT and Sex training. Join George on April 16th for his masterclass through Nicabm. Don’t worry if you can’t make it live. You will receive a recording with your registration. George Faller: EFT & Sex Training for Therapists
Transcript
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Announcement [00:01:20]:
Suitable for children touching versus being touched which way we go here Laurie oh.
Laurie Watson [00:01:28]:
It means different things for our attachment styles different things different things.
Laurie Watson [00:01:37]:
Welcome to.
Laurie Watson [00:01:38]:
Foreplay sex therapy I’m doctor Laurie Watson.
George Faller [00:01:41]:
Your sex therapist and I’m George Faller your couples therapist we are here to talk about sex our mission is to help couples talk about sex in ways that incorporate their body their mind and.
Laurie Watson [00:01:53]:
Their hearts and we have a little bit of fun doing it right g.
George Faller [00:01:57]:
Listen and let’s change some relationships i love when we get specific and we geek out and we talk about these things most of us never really think about like touch is touching it is what it is but really getting nuanced and this is this is the fun.
Laurie Watson [00:02:12]:
Stuff people absolutely i was talking to some folks about this and just about their own experience of being touched you know places they felt uncomfortable with places they liked and they’re also their experience about touching and how how that felt to them and i think you know sometimes we’ve been making love to somebody for so long we don’t even separate that out but there’s so much to learn and there’s so much richness that can come to the experience when we think about this and you know touching kind of is more active you’re sort of in control you’re confident but there’s two parts of touching that i think about one is touching to please and then there’s another one about just touching that pleases yourself you know that we touch and that’s such a sensuous experience to our fingers and to our body as we experience another body with you know hands and mouth and our body and then you know sometimes we can get hung up on is this working and other times we like kind of want to get hung up on is it working for our partner it’s so.
George Faller [00:03:33]:
Complicated hold on I want to make sure I’m getting what you’re saying because you’re talking about touches and giving and touch that we receive right those are two different types of touch but you’re saying even in giving you know there is you give touch right you can give touch that you think the other person wants or you know in control but you also in giving touch you can give that for yourself like you get there’s a receiving element in kind of giving touch Esther Perel would always do this interesting exercise which he’d say I you know give me your hand I want you to kind of rub my whatever her forearm she’d say rub it the way you think I want to be rubbed and then I want you to use my forearm the way you think like your hand wants to receive my forearm and it’s just amazing that little twist both are giving but they’re like really different in how it feels for your own body yeah exactly.
Laurie Watson [00:04:31]:
Like I think about touching my husband and like I love touching his forearm just kind of the bristly hair on it and I get so much pleasure out of that we have a funny history like when we were first dating he had a really full beard and I just couldn’t get enough of touching.
George Faller [00:04:52]:
It you are a hair person i.
Laurie Watson [00:04:55]:
Do like hair and i remember just rubbing it and rubbing it rubbing it and we were out at this park and it’s so different right than my body and it was so exciting to me and then finally he kind of looked at me because that kind of hurts it’s just like oh no you know i’m like totally geeking out of on this loving this excited by this and he was like that that’s not good you know so ever since then.
George Faller [00:05:24]:
You’ve always been good at receiving when you give touch say that again you’ve always been good you’re describing being good even though you’re giving touch to Derek right you’re actually receiving in the giving you’re that was which I don’t think a lot of people do I mean maybe I don’t know I’m just thinking I think a lot of people when they’re touching they’re thinking about what their partner wants out of the touch they’re trying to please their partner they’re trying to give their partner something I mean that’s great if you can get both if the partner can get something and while you get something out of giving.
Laurie Watson [00:05:57]:
It exactly i mean i hear people talk about giving intimate touch maybe like giving oral sex and they’re like you know i’m i’m doing a job right i know it turns my partner on and i’m like what an to me like what a what a terrible feeling if you’re only doing it you know to do a job to turn your partner on like you’re not getting something out of that like don’t don’t people i mean i i certainly hear a lot of men talk about that giving oral sex they really get into it they love that you know they love doing it i don’t hear as many women talk about that and it just feels so sad to me that they they don’t take pleasure in in doing that and and in like it doesn’t turn them on they don’t let the reciprocal nature of touch like excite their bodies i i don’t know how you could do i don’t know how you.
George Faller [00:06:50]:
Could even block that no but if you don’t think about it if you you’re nervous and you think you got to do service and you don’t think about how can i use my partner’s body and touching it to also give myself pleasure and touch back i mean it’s a it’s an it’s interesting idea.
Laurie Watson [00:07:10]:
Yeah yeah when it comes to holiday gifting i want to give things that people really love beautiful timeless pieces that they’ll wear for years that’s why i’m going to quince from their mongolian cashmere sweaters which you know i love to the italian wool coats and everything is premium quality at a price that actually makes sense i am giving every son of mine one of their cashmere scarves and i’m giving my daughter in laws the cashmere sweaters different varieties but i’m so excited and i am of course wearing cashmere sweaters for the holidays because i’m going to wear it’s cold and i cannot wait quint has something for everyone every piece is made with premium materials with ethical trusted factories and price far below what other luxury brands charge and their craft really shows in every detail the stitching the fit the drape it’s elevated timeless and made to wear on repeat find gifts so good that you want to keep them with quince go to quince dot com foreplay for free shipping on your order and three hundred sixty five day returns now available in canada too and that’s q dash u dash i dash n dash c dash e dot com foreplay to get free shipping and three hundred sixty five day returns quince dot com foreplay remember.
Laurie Watson [00:08:26]:
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Are hustling hard to get amazing new gifts into stores right up to the last minute like a designer perfume for that friend who never rsvp’d wishlist topping toys for her kids who came too belgian chocolates for the neighbor a cozy scarf for your boss and a wool jacket for your husband that you definitely did not almost forget marshalls we get.
Laurie Watson [00:08:50]:
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George Faller [00:08:58]:
Help with that how do you develop.
Laurie Watson [00:08:59]:
That that’s a good question i mean.
Laurie Watson [00:09:05]:
I think some of it is a refocus like you know in sensuality just like what feels good to me as i’m touching you know what am i feeling this was an exercise that i gave this couple to do it’s like i wanted them to stop pleasing their partner for a minute and be very aware of their fingers and their hands and their mouths and just like and you know like the whole experience what smelled good what you know what felt good to them like if there was absolutely no pressure to perform you know what parts of the body were interesting to touch and that i mean it really kind of set them free and likewise being touched i think is another experience right we it’s more passive and in some ways i probably think of being touched as more vulnerable like you have to submit to this you have to let this happen and i think especially when people have been have made love and it’s kind of off kilter for one reason or another letting your partner kind of learn your body again and do what they want and they’re imperfect you know i mean i have women say to me all the time george you know i can masturbate and climax in two minutes and i’m like that’s awesome how long does it take you with a partner and they’re like ah you know like forever and and that’s you know that’s biofeedback right when we’re touching ourselves we we know exactly what we like but there’s something i think.
Laurie Watson [00:10:46]:
Really intimate about that faltering kind of way i mean certainly it takes communication to help your partner become more.
Laurie Watson [00:10:54]:
Accurate but also it just takes.
Laurie Watson [00:10:58]:
I guess some sense of trust and intimacy and letting go like your partner is learning your partner is doing the thing they like too what do you think.
George Faller [00:11:11]:
We’Ve shifted a little bit towards given towards receiving and i guess i’m curious some people it’s not a problem to receive it’s their natural language but like you said there are a lot of people receiving touches is a lot harder thing to do and i guess that’s what my brain is going like how do we help people you’re giving these exercises to how to give touch how do we help people receive touch if that’s an area you know maybe you didn’t get that as a child or you know you’re too self conscious there’s lots of blocks right breaks that get in the way but i mean that that really can slow down the sexual engagement when your body doesn’t receive touch.
Laurie Watson [00:11:49]:
Well yeah i just what you said there about like self consciousness i think that’s a big block for receiving touch and both parties can be self conscious about their bodies you know they might think they’re not enough in some way or they’re too much in another way so it kind of blocks them from pleasure you know one woman i know said you know her partner like never touched her stomach because early on in the relationship she had said don’t touch me there and took her at her word you know and then never touched there and so then you know the crazy thing is we start these cycles right we forget we’ve started it and there was never a re correction that said no no no it’s okay if you touch my stomach now you know and why are you not touching my stomach because then she made up in her head that even though she had started that she thought he didn’t want to touch her stomach that it was too fat or you know whatever and and i just think anyway i think you’re right on about self consciousness blocking our ability to touch or to be touched to be touched i mean i.
George Faller [00:13:03]:
Am i love touch so.
George Faller [00:13:07]:
That would probably be more my love language so i’m always trying to empathize or relate to what it’s like it feels like such a foreign land to just not enjoy touch it doesn’t do much for you i’m like what would you know every baby wants touch i would imagine right comfort so what is it just i don’t know i’m just trying to lean into that like if you’re partnered with somebody who doesn’t like touch and again it’s not a choice we all get dealt a hand to play in life right but for a lot of our listeners if they want to change that how do they get better at.
Laurie Watson [00:13:45]:
Wanting touch yeah and i think enjoying it you’ve said the way you grew up you were touched a lot right you had a million brothers and sisters and parents your mom was very affectionate.
George Faller [00:14:00]:
And even the culture i mean it was just a lot of guys hugging when you see each other and extended family members it was just like that was that was pretty typical and i remember you know my wife’s family was a lot less so you know when i met them it’s like no hugs no greeting you know proper handshake and i was like what this is you know a different climate we’ve we’re speaking different languages and i think you see this a lot with partners right they come from very different touch experiences yeah.
Laurie Watson [00:14:31]:
Exactly and i think that you know the primary thing is you can enjoy touch because probably your needs as a small child were met for touch so it feels natural to you and you can take pleasure in it and i think other people sometimes when they really don’t have their needs fully met maybe they come from decent families but that was a little absent it’s stilted and they can’t receive it as much not because they don’t need it as much they do need it as much you know they they they maybe need it more yeah you know for the healing to happen but they can’t take it in and i mean one of the things i’ve been thinking about for attachment styles is probably avoidantly attached people or slightly avoidantly attached people maybe they need to be in control in the beginning like that vulnerability of being touched is just too much but if they’re doing the touching okay like sometimes i see a lot of mothers and i’m going to end on this before we go to break but mothers who were not touched very much as children but they’re great moms and they touch their kids a lot and it’s a lot about that’s so safe right it’s so safe because they begin that they’re in control.
George Faller [00:15:54]:
Of it but i think that’s what you would start at this off with like as a parent when you’re giving touch to your kid because they need it you’re also receiving i mean it’s such an amazing thing to have your child on your chest or rubbing your cheek against your cheek it’s like your body’s receiving and giving touch oh yes.
Laurie Watson [00:16:13]:
Okay i know we gotta end but i’m gonna come back with a sweet little topic.
George Faller [00:16:23]:
Hey lori i’m excited next week to be partnering with the national institute for the clinical application of behavioral medicine join in and it is but they’ve got a great program really trying to kind of get good messages out there and i’m talking about sex while we talk about the sex talk your client desperately needs but likely isn’t having nice so this is for therapists to just try to get better at learning how to work with that sexual attachment system and really we’re big believers this will change how you do your therapy so check out the podcast there’ll be a link you’ll get fifty percent off and the podcast is the training is going off next wednesday the sixteenth april sixteenth noon to three pm three hours and you get the link fifty percent.
Laurie Watson [00:17:09]:
Off and what’s the title of the.
George Faller [00:17:11]:
Class the sex talk your client desperately needs but likely is in heaven and.
Laurie Watson [00:17:16]:
You get three ceus thanks three ceus.
George Faller [00:17:24]:
You’Re back give me this sweet topic.
Laurie Watson [00:17:26]:
You know i was with my grandson yesterday and his mom is traveling so i’m kind of helping take care of him and he said my name george.
Laurie Watson [00:17:36]:
It just over the moon but i was what do you call you amma my name is amma and he hits his chest like this it’s an a sign and so you know the love is like this is amma so he did both amma and he hits his chest it’s so sweet but i came to lunch with him and he was eating avocado and chicken salad with his hands you know and i kind of was over him in the high chair for a little bit i had just dropped by and then i kind of squatted right next to him in the high chair and he reaches over to me pulls me in with these slimy little hands and rubs his face all over me gives me a great big hug you know and i’m just like it’s so i’m so over the moon with the love with kind of the sensuous slippery kind of baby love it was just like oh my gosh everything.
George Faller [00:18:31]:
In mind the chicken salad in your.
Laurie Watson [00:18:33]:
Hair i had avocado everywhere nice but you know it’s what you’re saying is so true right with our children many times this is a second chance at healing because it’s it is both we give and we take in again and it’s i think somehow or another it’s less threatening in that way than with a partner we we have a that mother lion or that parent lion part of us that knows you know we want to be protective we want to soothe we want to comfort but it is a blessing because in that touching we get back.
Laurie Watson [00:19:12]:
But i think how do we switch it to the partner right because oftentimes the partner that’s what.
George Faller [00:19:17]:
My heart’s going out to it’s like if you don’t really like touch or receiving touch i mean because really you’ve been deprived and your body hasn’t learned to speak it like how do we you know then in they feel the pressure of it and i’m sure their partner tries and they try to take it in but you know i just to help them have success in receiving touch right what would that even.
Laurie Watson [00:19:46]:
I wonder if there’s ways like that feel safe to them to get touch like a back massage you know like if i had a partner who didn’t like touch i mean i think i might become an expert at back massage but actually my partner doesn’t like back massage it’s the weirdest thing like doesn’t he’s really good at touching and he’s really affectionate and he rubs my back all the time but he doesn’t really like that so much so funny but how.
George Faller [00:20:15]:
Do we get him to like it.
Laurie Watson [00:20:17]:
I i don’t know maybe i need to get better at i i literally have taken classes in it you know but it’s just not his thing really he likes other kinds of touch he loves his head rub so i do that kind of and i hear sometimes women say you know they don’t like a lot of touch but they like their hair brushed or their hair shampooed i think somehow or another that one is really safe to them or their.
George Faller [00:20:41]:
Feet racks shampooed i mean guys don’t get that often but you know a few times i’ve gone to i think you took me once to a place and i was like my god this is pretty amazing i never had that.
Laurie Watson [00:20:52]:
Done before george you go to a barber and it’s so crazy you got great hair it’s like i do not know why you don’t go to a salon they’d wash your hair every single time and give you a stylish cut.
George Faller [00:21:03]:
Stylish cut so.
George Faller [00:21:07]:
But you’re talking about trying to find exceptions to the not wanting touch rule finding little ways that you do enjoy touching trying to kind of grow upon that.
George Faller [00:21:19]:
But a lot of this it seems like it needs to be non sexual first there’s a safety in that right touching your kid even though you don’t really like touch you like when you’re touching your kid that’s like a safe setting where you start taking and you’re saying like a back rub or just rub my hair do something that just maybe it is the pressure that they put on and the overthinking or need to control we’re just trying to identify what could be some of these blocks some of these breaks and kind of free them up so they can i mean i would think it’s never too late for your body to kind of take it in.
Laurie Watson [00:21:55]:
Touch absolutely it is never too late for your body to take in touch you know i think this lack of touch and this problem if the partner can feel it this way it’s an invitation to heal your partner you know if there’s just if ever they needed anything that they do need this and i know i think it’s difficult because sometimes it does interrupt sexually and of course you know on the podcast that’s where we’re aiming eventually but you know it’s kind of step by step and i think people with trauma i mean touch is so unsafe some of the times it can feel so threatening and sexual touch can be so threatening.
Laurie Watson [00:22:44]:
If there was sexual trauma and george even if there wasn’t sexual trauma physical abuse you know puts your body on edge and so i think that they have to learn to overcome that i really hope that people can kind of co create that safety around physical intimacy maybe it’s like they are the touchers and they they you know gradually allow their partner to touch them in ways that they describe and you know let themselves receive that it’s like they have to reclaim touch as their birthright i love.
George Faller [00:23:23]:
That reclaim it because i do think it’s a choice to fight for that part of yourself because if we just allow our fears because we’ve been hurt with trust or we haven’t received enough trust then that vigilance is always going to want to block the touch right so how do we how does that person set responsibility for hey maybe i had to survive this way but i don’t have to anymore i like how you say i want to reclaim this birthright to touch i gotta i gotta allow my body to feel a discomfort it’s not gonna trust it right it’s not gonna feel so good because i’ve been avoiding this thing for a while but to you know at some level on a cellular level you know my body wants this i mean i’ve seen so many couples where maybe a person partner came from no touch environment and then they have this little spark of life that comes in the dating or the honeymoon and all of a sudden they really enjoy the touch yes and then what’s so tragic is then you know after kids and a couple years they go back to that original setting of not really wanting touch again so you know really i love your invitation if that’s you like why settle for that you just like with low libido desire we’re trying to get people to stand up and fight this is another form of low libido for touch like why settle for that you know deal with the trauma deal with the breaks just confront it with your partner’s help and move that needle yeah and i.
Laurie Watson [00:24:50]:
Think what you’re saying we need to explore in another episode this part of us that opens up and allows curiosity and freedom when we’re dating and then somehow or another we revert back to familial kinds of old patterns i really think and this is this is crazy making but it’s because our attachment becomes more solid to our partner but underlying that are currents of old attachment patterns you know things that we knew it’s like it all bleeds together and so we have to sort of consciously learn how to take the good that our partner is different than that you know safer wants to love us wants to touch us and it’s a difficult process to separate these two rivers right the river of the partnership from the river of the childhood that kind of bleed together after a few years that says this is family this is attachment and this is what i know of it and it’s like actually we have to get curious about what we can know of it that we have you know a new experience a new opportunity with our partner to you know really feel as alive as we possibly can as.
George Faller [00:26:05]:
Happy as we can yeah i love the the concept what you’re talking about of automaticity that so many of these younger experiences create this just automatic response to something that we’re not even conscious about it just happens so quick it’s just like it’s just what our body does without our awareness and that’s really what you’re trying to interrupt you’re trying to help people become more conscious to say hey listen you know your body’s learned this language that’s leading you to not getting touch and you got to actually kind of face that and try to become more conscious so you can make a choice i mean what’s so sad is you’re not making a choice your unconscious kind of training is making all these choices around touch for you and you we revert back to that because we’re just not being conscious we’re right sleepwalking through our life and you know if you if you’re willing to make a choice for that to reclaim it and you’re saying wait a second i have a partner here who wants to touch me and i’m not going to want that if i just don’t think about it i got to actually face that and put myself in a position to to feel again yeah this.
Laurie Watson [00:27:12]:
Episode is brought to you by oops i’ve got a box of cheez it crackers staring at me and i just wanted that irresistible cheesy crunch sorry that was a total snackcident.
Laurie Watson [00:27:24]:
What was i supposed to be talking about so salty so crunchy so cheesy whoops lost my train of thought i’ve heard of brain freeze but brain cheese i’ll just have one more cheese at cracker and then i’ll get back to it.
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Laurie Watson [00:28:09]:
Responsibly i think that the difficulty in partnership is oftentimes the the more one partner is more aware of the difficulty and the partner who is shut down kind of in that old river can’t quite see it and so again that’s kind of what starts the pursue withdrawal cycle it’s like we want them to wake up because if they wake up then it would be better for us and so in some ways the caretaking cycle in our relationship kind of has to be present that says i’m going to love this person in this place in their unconscious unknowing place that they can’t see how much more freedom they have and i’m going to be patient and help them wake up a little bit you know certainly by talking about it but also just by finding safe ways to pull them out to call them out into the joy that we could feel with touch and with sex.
George Faller [00:29:08]:
Well i like your call for both i mean certainly the partner and a lot of these couples that i work with a partner does want to help with the touch department is willing because they get a lot of enjoyment out of touch this is really more of a differentiation piece the person who doesn’t like touch for really good reasons and it’s not their fault and it’s the language they’ve learned but if they’re not willing to challenge that they’re going to be stuck in that forever and you know that that where they have to reclaim that part of themselves that says hey i got to i got to put my body in a different position to see if it can do something different than what it’s been trained to.
Laurie Watson [00:29:42]:
Do yeah and we just gotta help people have that conversations in a way that it doesn’t result in push pull you know because when you see it you know you don’t want to push your partner and then they’re resistant and then that that just sets it up.
George Faller [00:29:59]:
Further so i like the distinction and give in touch you can give touch for your partner or you can in give in touch receive you can feel pleasure you can feel pleasure back and the flip side of that is when you’re receiving touch right you can that can feel good but also in receiving touch you can give back in how you’re receiving to actually make your partner feel pretty good i mean that’s the beauty of both ways around touch yeah exactly oh we opened up a more world around touch isn’t it i like.
Laurie Watson [00:30:34]:
It i like it this was good well thanks for listening get to touching.
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Baby.
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Call in your questions to the four play question voicemail dial eight hundred and thirty three my four play that’s eight three three my the number four play and we’ll use the questions for our mailbag episodes all content is for entertainment purposes only and should not be considered as a substitute for therapy by a licensed clinician or as medical advice from a doctor this podcast is copyrighted by fourplay media when it comes to.
Laurie Watson [00:31:05]:
Holiday gifting i want to give things that people really love beautiful timeless pieces that they’ll we years that’s why i’m going to quince from their mongolian cashmere sweaters which you know i love to the italian wool coats and everything is premium quality at a price that actually makes sense i am giving every son of mine one of their cashmere scarves and i’m giving my daughter in laws the cashmere sweaters different varieties but i’m so excited and i am of course wearing cashmere sweaters for the holidays because i’m going to where it’s cold and i cannot wait quince has something for everyone every piece is made with premium materials with ethical trusted factories and price far below what other luxury brands charge and their craftsmanship really shows in every detail the stitching the fit the drape it’s elevated timeless and made to wear on repeat find gifts so good that you want to keep them with quince go to quince dot com foreplay for free shipping on your order and three hundred sixty five day returns now available in canada too and that’s q dash u dash i dash n dash c dash e dot com foreplay to get free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns quince dot com foreplay remember our code y’ all foreplay.
