Ever wonder how Laurie and George navigate a couple’s distress? They use a map (mutual attachment patterns)! In today’s episode, our experts share the map they use to help couples see the larger picture in their conflict. The emotional and sexual cycles interact and influence connection between partners.
A missed bid for connection in the emotional cycle creates a ripple in the sexual cycle and a missed bid for physical intimacy can cause emotional shut down. When partners are able to zoom out and look at the map together they have a better opportunity to see where they made a wrong turn and how they can get back on course.
Here are some self-reflection questions to use on your map: “Who have I been to my partner over the past few days? How have I been coming across? If my bid wasn’t taken, how did I react? Have I missed something important to my partner?” We all get lost from time to time, work with your partner to use the map to connection. Keep it hot, y’all!
Check out this episode’s sponsors:
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Transcript
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George Faller [00:01:41]:
The following content is not suitable for children.
Laurie Watson [00:01:43]:
Good news. We’re going to give you a map. We’re going to give you a map to figure everything out. I like this. George is the acronym king and we’re going to try to figure out how the intersection of the sexual and the emotional cycle are impacting each other with the map.
George Faller [00:02:00]:
Bring it on.
Laurie Watson [00:02:04]:
Welcome to Foreplay sex therapy. I’m Dr. Lori Watson, your sex therapist.
George Faller [00:02:09]:
And I’m George Fowler, your couples therapist.
Laurie Watson [00:02:11]:
We are here to talk about sex.
George Faller [00:02:13]:
Our mission is to help couples talk about sex in ways that incorporate their body, their mind and their hearts.
Laurie Watson [00:02:21]:
And we have a little bit of fun doing it right G listen and.
George Faller [00:02:25]:
Let’S change some relationships again.
Laurie Watson [00:02:27]:
Join us if you’re a therapist. We’re teaching on sexuality in Arkansas. The Arkansas EFT community in February, the.
George Faller [00:02:36]:
27Th, and the 28th, Arkansas eft.com Show up, baby. Let’s do it. And we want to also thank our patrons for all the support, all the feedback that we continue to get. That’s why we love some of these trainings in person. We start getting people showing up from all these different places that we haven’t met but have listened to the podcast. And it’s just such a. Such a great reward to get. And I know people continue to partner with us and continue to kind of push us, and, you know, our team is growing.
George Faller [00:03:04]:
Lori.
Laurie Watson [00:03:05]:
I know. It’s so exciting, I gotta say. You know, I was teaching the other day in some city, and I asked people who listened to the podcast, and I would say 4/5 of them raised their hand. And to me, what was so exciting is we already knew each other on some level. They knew my mind, they knew my voice, they knew, you know, kind of knew my heart a little bit. And it was like we were, you know, we were going together, and I. Same thing happens when people come in to see me in an intensive. You know, they’ve listened to the podcast and it’s like, so they kind of already have a sense of where we’re going.
Laurie Watson [00:03:40]:
I think it is an effective tool, what we’re doing here, George, to reach people, to help people and to help them kind of relationally. Right. That’s what a podcast is, is they’re listening to you and I and how we do and don’t work it out. And, you know, just. I think it’s a good way to learn and connect. So.
George Faller [00:03:59]:
Absolutely.
Laurie Watson [00:03:59]:
Join us on patrons if you want to support our mission. We have some serious expenses between our editing and social media and time.
Laurie Watson [00:04:09]:
Programs that we use. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Our budget keeps growing.
George Faller [00:04:14]:
Everyone’s budget’s growing. Inflation’s ridiculous. But let’s not lose our mission here. Right?
Laurie Watson [00:04:19]:
Okay. Thank you.
George Faller [00:04:20]:
We’re talking about effective tools. Effective tools. This is now my language right here. So the map. Let’s talk about the map. When we talk about the map, we’re talking about the mutual attachment pattern. Right? We talk a lot about the emotional cycle and the sexual cycle.
Laurie Watson [00:04:37]:
Right.
George Faller [00:04:38]:
And seeing these predictable positions that kind of fall, well, that map is putting the two of them together. It’s really encouraging people to say, actually what happens outside the bedroom influences what happens inside the bedroom and vice versa. And a lot of us, when we’re just looking at a cycle, we get tunnel vision. We’re just paying attention to that environment. And we don’t see that that environment is influenced by the other environment, too. So we really hope this map, just the idea that there’s this bigger picture that is going to help people just have more awareness.
Laurie Watson [00:05:12]:
Right, right. Absolutely. Okay, Gee, let’s talk about. You’re going to use tempo and the map together.
George Faller [00:05:20]:
I’m going to hold off is we might talk about that in the book. I. I want to just. Just have the two of us talk, just give examples about the influence of the two. So, you know, I was working with a couple where.
George Faller [00:05:36]:
You know, the wife was the sexual withdrawal, the emotional pursuer. The husband was the sexual pursuer, emotional withdrawer. And, you know, he makes the moves on her. And she’s trying to be responsive even though she was not feeling emotionally close. Right. And not feeling emotionally close, you know, makes it harder for her to engage her, you know, sexual energy because she’s, you know, her brain is kind of focused on. On what it’s missing for really good reasons. But she pushes herself past that.
George Faller [00:06:09]:
Right. She. She tries, she hopes her caregiving, her responsiveness, her body will come online. You know, it did it in this situation. But she, you know, she did the best she can, and she was glad that at least her husband was responded to. And then at the end of the sexual act, you know, he turns to her and he says, you know, I really wish we could have tried something different this time. So, again, imagine what it’s like when you’re putting yourself in a situation you kind of don’t want to be.
Laurie Watson [00:06:38]:
Oh, my God.
George Faller [00:06:38]:
And then you get criticized on top of it. Right. So she’s coming into the bedroom already at a minus.
Laurie Watson [00:06:44]:
Yeah.
George Faller [00:06:44]:
Now she’s pushing herself, now she’s ending with criticism. Right. This is not great training to want to have more sex.
Laurie Watson [00:06:50]:
And I just want to break this down from both of their perspectives because, yeah, for her, she feels criticized. It’s like, I. I already did the best I could, buddy, and now you want more, and it wasn’t enough. But I wonder for him if he was pushing, right, to connect sexually. This is him getting online.
George Faller [00:07:11]:
Yeah.
Laurie Watson [00:07:11]:
You know, okay, maybe we are disconnected. And his way of thinking is, I want to get online with you. I want to have sex with you. And then he notices. He notices the disconnect. So he’s like, okay, maybe if it had been more exciting, she would have been more into it. We would have been more connected. You know, his brain is thinking this way.
Laurie Watson [00:07:32]:
Like, you know, he maybe does notice it. But rather than maybe a more attuned way to say, you know, wow, honey, thank you. But I also kind of noticed there was a disconnect between us and then them talking about it.
Laurie Watson [00:07:45]:
He’s not talking about the process between the two of them. He’s solution focused finding the answer. And so he says, oh, well, maybe this, right? Because I think a lot of men think if sex is fabulous and I’m a great performer and I make her come and I make her, you know, turn circles. It’s like she’s going to really want this and she’s going to really be into it, and then we’re going to feel that cemented kind of connection.
George Faller [00:08:13]:
Turning circle sounded pretty fun.
George Faller [00:08:17]:
Well, let’s see what that looks like.
Laurie Watson [00:08:19]:
Swings and circles and chandeliers, chandelier.
George Faller [00:08:23]:
And this is why we’re trying to slow down this process like this. This guy is missing a lot of pieces, right? He’s missing what’s going on for her before she even gets into the bed and puts her knees down. Right. Which, you know, influences her, what she’s going to do in that. Right. And this is kind of some of what’s happening during. And this is kind of what happens at the end. But we’re really emphasizing before the bedroom how, you know, him not checking in, not having a conversation, doing the dishes.
George Faller [00:08:50]:
You know, take like these actions actually have consequences to her inside the bedroom, right. They compromise her ability to access her own desire. The very thing that he feels rejected by, he plays a part. And I’m not sure a lot of men know that. I mean, they might have heard that. I need you to listen more and talk more. But I don’t know if they made the direct correlation between that stuff happening and how it impacts what is specifically happening in the bedroom sexually.
Laurie Watson [00:09:19]:
Yeah, absolutely. And can I just take the flip side, too? Because you’ve kind of supported the female position, and I do want to support the male position. I think I’ve talked to lots of women who say things like, you know, yeah, we haven’t had sex for, you know, a week or something. We’ve been busy, whatever. And I. I don’t get why he’s grumpy or whatever. And, you know, why can’t he just sort of stay even keeled? He should. That’s his responsibility.
Laurie Watson [00:09:47]:
We have a family. I can’t deal with this grumpy stuff. And it’s like, absolutely. I mean, he has a responsibility with his children, with his family, to stay even keeled. Not saying that that’s not true, but I think what she misses is that when she’s not very sexually engaged and she doesn’t even think about it as his love languages, his way of getting connected, he kind of is drifting out in outer space, not feeling connected. And so, you know, that is part of the problem for him as well. Like she wants him to be engaged with the family, to be even keeled. But he also wants her to be engaged in the sexual cycle, to know him, to know that this is the way he feels, the most alive with her, the most connected to her.
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George Faller [00:12:23]:
That’s super important. I mean you’re bringing in the opposite side of the coin, right? We’re Talking about when women don’t get emotional connection, it influences what happens in the bedroom. I don’t think a lot of women recognize when men are not feeling connected, when they don’t get that pleasure, that touch that kind of resets them, recharges them, kind of grounds them, how that influences their ability to have a conversation. You know, a lot of men will describe it as like, I’m in a fog. It’s like a low level depression that you have. It impacts work, it impacts friendships, it impacts parenting. I mean, this is so much more than just, you know, what’s happening, you know, inside the bedroom for men. And I think that’s a critically important point.
George Faller [00:13:05]:
That’s why this map is so important. Yeah. When you think your husband doesn’t want to listen because he doesn’t care, I think you also got to take into consideration how are we doing in the intimacy department. Is that influence in his ability to engage?
Laurie Watson [00:13:18]:
Yeah. And I think, you know, in our culture.
Laurie Watson [00:13:24]:
This mutuality that we’re trying to get across to people about how we’re getting connected and how it’s interrelated, you know, it doesn’t somehow or another play as well when we say, okay, the other person needs sex to feel connected. And, and I, I want to expand this away from just male, female. It’s sexual pursuers, sexual withdrawals. I am a sexual pursuer and a female, and my body resets with sex and my emotional connection resets. It’s. It’s not just men, you know, it’s sexual pursuers and sexual, you know, and emotional pursuers as well. It’s like, you know, I need time, I need a conversation, and I need sex. I probably need sex first, actually, when I think about it, you know, I mean, that, that makes me feel really safe and I feel more open, I feel more flexible about whatever’s going on with us.
Laurie Watson [00:14:20]:
I mean, my husband and I had a sort of a regular cycle issue about, you know, you know, when. How much are we going to pay for the taxes and are we going to get it all done? And, you know, that sets off my husband’s nervous system, you know, and. And we had sex. And then I was really able to come to him and go, oh, yeah. Oh, God, this is the place where he hears you’re failing because you don’t have all the answers. And, you know, all the things that I need to feel safe. And I just knew it. And so I came to him very gently and I just said, okay, let’s do a do over.
Laurie Watson [00:14:54]:
You know, I know When I start asking those rapid fire questions about taxes and all that, you know, it makes you anxious. Even if we have the money to pay the taxes, it still is like my tone sets you off. And I could visibly see his body relax. He like laid back in the chair, you know, he just like his shoulders went down and it was, it was for me though, I got connected after sex and it’s like, then it brought more flexibility in my mind and in my heart to be like more aware of where he was at emotionally over something, you know, not sexual. Beautiful. Beautiful.
George Faller [00:15:34]:
Well, let’s come back and talk more about the matter.
Laurie Watson [00:15:37]:
Okay.
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Laurie Watson [00:18:35]:
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George Faller [00:18:43]:
So I, I appreciate sharing that story. I think it’s very similar to me that after having sex, the next day is always a better day. I mean, a carryover. There’s like a, you know, honeymoon effect to having sex that, you know, influences my ability to engage or not.
Laurie Watson [00:19:04]:
Yeah.
George Faller [00:19:04]:
You know, so if my, my we have sex the night before or don’t. When I wake up that next morning is influenced by that.
Laurie Watson [00:19:11]:
You know, and I hear you, buddy.
George Faller [00:19:12]:
We. And we get how we. We get. You know, there are two ways of connecting through emotions or through, you know, the physical through the sexual. And both are important and really just trying to kind of put the two together that says when, when you want it, whatever the need is in either one and you don’t get it, it’s going to compromise the ability to do the other one. And we need to start seeing that bigger picture in couples because it just makes more room for real conversation.
Laurie Watson [00:19:41]:
Okay, so I want to pick your brain because I think a lot of women are curious about this from a male perspective, and I just gave my female perspective on it. But.
Laurie Watson [00:19:51]:
Let’S say it’s. It’s a night where you have sex the night before, or it’s the next day you had sex the night before and you’re waking up. What is it like? What do you. What does it mean when you say, I just feel different? Like, what is that feeling? What is it like?
George Faller [00:20:08]:
I think it’s a double win. I think it’s. It’s a reduction in the stress and the negativity. Right. Sex gives you a focus that allows you to see the bigger picture of what you appreciate and makes you feel more connected, which is the benefit of it. You feel more on the same page. Your perspective improves. Right.
George Faller [00:20:26]:
You know, you’re seeing the good in your family in the future instead of what you’re not getting. I mean, it really feels like a shift away from the negative into more of a positive. So you know that that next day you just wake up a little bit more refreshed, a little bit more relaxed, a little bit more optimistic. You know, you want to engage. I mean, I always think about the afterglow after the orgasm. So many women think it’s all about the orgasm. You know, the afterglow is when I’m probably the most affectionate. Right.
George Faller [00:20:54]:
When it’s. It’s like, I love that period of sex to just be, like, filled with oxytocin and, like, it’s probably the most connected. I feel. No wonder why my body likes it so that oxytocin is going to hang over the next day. You remember what that felt like? It’s. I’m more likely the next morning my wife’s making coffee to come up behind and rub her back and say, good morning, beautiful. Right. It’s.
George Faller [00:21:17]:
I’m not looking to have sex. When I rub it back and say good morning, that’s just more. The romantic side is going to come out because I’m feeling more at peace. I’m feeling more grounded.
Laurie Watson [00:21:25]:
Yeah. And I mean, it’s cool. But I also hear women complain that after the orgasm, men just roll over and, like, conk out.
Laurie Watson [00:21:36]:
A lot. Like, what happens to you? I don’t know that. That’s so typical where you want to stay and cuddle and talk and.
George Faller [00:21:46]:
Well, sometimes I get sleepy, too. But.
George Faller [00:21:50]:
True confessions, I mean, I think I’ve also worked on developing more of my kind of physical, kind of embodiment during sex. My more emotional. We Talk about the best sex talk. Things that we can do to get higher levels of engagement. I think a lot of men, when it’s just physical and it’s stress reduction, you know, they got what they need. They roll over and fall asleep and. And, you know, that’s why you have to have a. That’s.
George Faller [00:22:13]:
You should want more than that. You know, if you just had this intimate moment, there’s nothing wrong with your wife saying, hey, like, I’m kind of wanting, you know, before you go to bed. I mean, it’s the same with a lot of men. Feel like women has to get up and take a shower and like it’s over so quickly and, you know, on to the next thing. It’s like missing that little emotional moment, I think is a miss.
Laurie Watson [00:22:33]:
I. I think you brought up a really good point. Is like, same thing. I mean, men often roll over and go to sleep, and women often jump up and take a shower and, you know, or shower off. Although I think, you know, that could be really fast. Right? You just use the handheld shower thing and you’re done and you jump back in bed. It’s like, if that’s your thing. But.
Laurie Watson [00:22:55]:
But I do think that disrupt. Disruption afterwards can be problematic.
George Faller [00:23:00]:
Yeah.
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Laurie Watson [00:24:02]:
And knowing either gender too. I mean, either gender. I mean, I think as a woman, especially a menopausal woman, you know, I’m in that I’m more awake stage. That’s why I like sex in the morning, because then it’s like I’m ready for my day. I’m all revved up. I feel connected. I mean, it’s like beautiful thing. Whereas at night, you know, it’s.
Laurie Watson [00:24:24]:
I’m tireder and I’m actually more awake after sexual. You know, so I’m. I’m ready to talk and, you know, maybe my husband is ready to cuddle for five minutes, but he’s also ready to go to sleep, you know, but my. My heart is open. I. I want to, you know, be with him, you know, and it’s time to go to bed. So it’s not necessarily a good time for me anymore. Used to be.
Laurie Watson [00:24:48]:
Used to be my favorite time.
George Faller [00:24:50]:
It could be a gay couple. It doesn’t matter the sexual orientation. Right. There’s going to be some of this dynamics where both partners miss the map. They get so caught up in thinking it’s just what’s happening in the moment, and they don’t see that there were things beforehand that. An influence in this moment.
Laurie Watson [00:25:05]:
Yeah, right.
George Faller [00:25:06]:
So the more that we can have these conversations that say, hey, it doesn’t seem like you’re listening to me. Maybe that has something to do with what happened last night. Or the flip side of that is, hey, you want to have sex? Maybe the answer has something more to do what happened early in the day than actually what’s happening in this moment. And couples that can make that space, you know, they. They’re putting everything on the table to actually have a better chance of repairing the misses here.
Laurie Watson [00:25:32]:
Right. I mean, and I. I think it’s. Maybe it’s a simple question. If you are. If you need sex to get connected, but you’re not quite as aware of your partner’s need for emotional connection, you know, you kind of have to be reflective. It’s not just who you’ve been. You know, this last few hours at dinner and wine, it’s like, okay, but the last few days I’ve been withdrawn or I’ve been upset, or I’ve been more easily irritated, or I just let my anger flare out and it’s like, you know, especially anger, I might add, again, you know, that often resets your partner’s nervous system to be on alert rather than that relaxed, sensual opening, you know, it’s not a good thing.
Laurie Watson [00:26:18]:
But then, you know, you gotta check in, like, who have I been? And I think, same, same. If your partner is in that bad space, you might check in and go, okay, who have I been sexually? Have I made this a priority? Have I, you know, been affectionate? Have I been touching? Have I been flirting? Have I, you know, held out the sexual connection between us is really important? And have I told my partner I find them attractive? You know? You know, like, what if we. I said, you know.
Laurie Watson [00:26:55]:
Sorry, I was just remembering something I’ve said.
George Faller [00:26:59]:
That’s another show.
Laurie Watson [00:27:00]:
That’s another show. Yeah.
George Faller [00:27:03]:
Yeah. I mean, I think the map has really helped me be a better therapist and be a better partner because it provided more balance. You know, we feel totally okay as a therapist. Telling a, you know, sexual withdrawer, please don’t have sex that you don’t want to have. That doesn’t feel safe saying, no, absolutely.
Laurie Watson [00:27:20]:
Right, Absolutely.
George Faller [00:27:21]:
What’s wrong with the flip side of that? What’s wrong with saying, hey, you know, don’t have an emotional conversation that you don’t want to have when you don’t feel super connected? I mean, this is what, you know, I think we just need more of that balance to say, hey, listen, either way of connecting is important. We’re not here to judge. And when those, those ways of connecting are rejected, it’s going to cause something in that person. Right. And the more we can give them space to put words to that, I think this more. Create more. Create more safety.
Laurie Watson [00:27:50]:
It’s funny when you say that second one, though. Everything in me as a therapist says, whoa, whoa, whoa.
George Faller [00:27:55]:
Yeah.
Laurie Watson [00:27:56]:
You know, I don’t know that not having a conversation when you don’t feel like it is such a good thing, like, you got to explain yourself, you got to talk about it. You know, it’s. I think what you’re highlighting is it feels okay to give the sexual withdrawer permission to back out. It doesn’t feel as good to give the emotional withdrawer permission to back out. Right. Just instinctively. It doesn’t. It.
Laurie Watson [00:28:21]:
It doesn’t sit right with us. Is that what you were trying to.
George Faller [00:28:24]:
The point you were trying to make? Yeah, I had a session yesterday where, you know, the female is the emotional pursuer, sexual withdrawal, and she’s so frustrated that her partner’s not engaging in conversation that she’s withholding all touch and sex as a. Of motivating him to kind of try to engage more. And this guy’s just sinking more into a hole and he’s not engaging. You know that just the negative cycles, beating them both up. So I’m trying to get, say, hey, listen, it’s horrible for you. I get why you don’t want to have sex when you don’t, you’re not emotionally connected like it. That it feels like you’re being used, you’re betraying your body. It’s a healthy thing to say no.
George Faller [00:29:03]:
And are you open to understanding what saying no sexually or withdraw, withholding touch does to him and how that compromises his ability to actually engage emotionally? Because that is his reality. You want to see it or not? You know that. I mean, I think that’s what a healthy caregiving system can do. It wants to understand my partner’s world.
Laurie Watson [00:29:25]:
Yeah. And it’s okay to say no, but I Think similarly revealing what’s in the brain about the. No. Helps your partner. If it’s like, I. I am just dead meat. I cannot do one more thing tonight. I gotta get some sleep.
Laurie Watson [00:29:42]:
You are so interesting to me. I want you. I want to have sex with you tomorrow. This is not a personal rejection of you. I still think you’re attractive, Sweetheart. This is about, you know, like, what’s going on in my body. I’m exhausted. Like, just that, you know, it would still be disappointing, but it would be understandable.
Laurie Watson [00:30:04]:
And it would be much easier to not take it personally and set off the cycle. And I think. Same thing I will say. I do think it’s okay to not have conversation when you’re not ready or you’re not in a space. But saying to your partner, like, revealing that saying, yeah, I have been preoccupied for the last three days. I get it. And you’re right. I’m very stressed at work.
Laurie Watson [00:30:27]:
There’s these things that are going on. Blah, blah, blah. It’s not about you. It’s not about you and me. It’s about what’s happening in my world. And I’m probably sending you signals that make you feel like, you know, you’ve done something wrong, but you haven’t. I love you. I want to be with you here.
Laurie Watson [00:30:42]:
Let’s. Let’s hug. Let’s get connected real quick. You know, let’s plan date night Saturday, so that we. I’ll download for you. Then what’s been. What’s been going on with me? You know, I mean, that kind of thing would be very helpful.
George Faller [00:30:57]:
Well, there’s your homework assignment. Everyone take out your map. Right? Your mutual attachment pattern that’s trying to see both of them. And what we want you to do is connect. If your partner is not wanting to have sex, can you say, hey, does this have something to do with what’s happening outside the bedroom, how we’re doing emotionally and the flip side of that? Right. If your partner is not talking to you, might that have something to do with the lack of touch or things that are happening? Right. Your curiosity, I think, will start to reveal the link that really is critical between these two patterns.
Laurie Watson [00:31:35]:
Yeah. Yeah. Good. Okay. Love it. Thank you, George. Thanks for listening.
George Faller [00:31:43]:
Keep it hot, y’.
Laurie Watson [00:31:44]:
All.
George Faller [00:31:45]:
Call in your questions to the four play question. Voicemail. Dial 833-MY-4 PLAY. That’s 833-MY- the number four play. And we’ll use the questions for our mailbag episodes. All content is for entertainment purposes only and should not be considered as a substitute for therapy by a licensed clinician or as medical advice from a doctor. This podcast is copyrighted by Foreplay Media.
Laurie Watson [00:32:07]:
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George Faller [00:33:49]:
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